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Old 07-03-2007, 10:00 AM   #1
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Default Read first: why it's not a good idea to post your first model

I have seen many people, and not only at these forums, posting their very first work. These people can be classified into 2 categories:

1. Retarded noobs - they post their first ever thing and say "this is first model of mine, w00t do ya think? ". Or they just post "first model" and that's it. They don't even ask for critique directly, just after the first wave of flames they say something like "OMG STFU I just want critcq! (dramatisation)". These kind of people deserve no attention in my opinion, they just need a decent smack on the head to wake them up.

2. Good noobs - they are just clueless. They post their first thing and ask for advice besides "what do you think". But why is this still a bad thing to do? Well because:
  1. Think that you're not the first one who ever posted like this. Millions of people from all around the world posted like this (not only on this forum) and they recieved millions of answers. It's just really annoying when they keep coming, instead of searching and reading the comments that other people recieved on the same kind of thing. You must understand that people got tired to answer the same things over and over again. So do us all a favor and USE THE SEARCH FEATURE.
  2. You might think that your model/animation looks great for your first time. Well let me tell you a little secret: it doesn't. It sucks big time actually. There's no "it's good for your first time", it's the same all over the place. So spare us of your pride and go document yourself on how to improve instead.
So in conclusion, what to do with your first model/animation? Keep it for yourself, that's what. Let it rot on your hdd and go read tutorials instead. This forum is dedicated to helping users that need critique and advice on a model/animation they are working at (unless it's their first thing). Read MODEL (made by you from the very first vertex), not GEOMERGED MODEL.

Now you might start saying stuff about the second model...well, that's ok the way I see it, because you're already initiated and you might want some extra direct help, especially maybe about the workflow. Though it is still best to search for tutorials first and if you don't find it there, ask here.

Feel free to comment about this and let me know whether you agree or not (with arguments).
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #2
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I would agree with you generally. Although for noob 2 I slightly disagree. I think the main problem with people who post their first work is that they don't put time into it. I do terrain, and people post a terrain that probably took about half an hour or maybe even ten minutes. I spend a minimum of an hour, and good work takes longer. Some can spend weeks on just a terrain. Models would be even worse. People make a WIP and post it. They need to keep it longer and work on it.
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:49 PM   #3
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Yeah sure.

Stimulate people posting things here!

really cool

I think people can post here whatever they want, even if it's their first model.
Me myself didn't post them because I know my first things I created sucked. However those who don't can just post it here.
Let them be proud of what they made.

it's about the fun isn't it?
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:52 PM   #4
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No, they need to realize that not everything shits rainbows.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teuncreemers
I think people can post here whatever they want, even if it's their first model.
Me myself didn't post them because I know my first things I created sucked. However those who don't can just post it here.
Let them be proud of what they made.

it's about the fun isn't it?
No, they can't post them here as long as I'm in charge of this section. And no, I won't let them be proud of what they made.
It really is about the fun, indeed, but why the urge to share your crap with the rest of the world? Seriously, I don't understand this thing...you should look around, see what the standards are and then post...I'd feel very ashamed to post something that sucks on some forum, hence I barely even post on sites like CGtalk or conceptart.org (I made a sketchbook there though, but there are quite a few sketchbooks there that I consider lower in quality than mine, so I don't feel THAT embarrassed)

Let's say you want advice, but what freakin advice CAN you give to a total beginner?! Nothing other that has been said around hundreds of times before, only generic stuff, since there are so many issues you don't even know where to start...the world wide web is HUUUGE, tons of information, why wouldn't one SEARCHH and see what replies others got and improve from that? That's the natural way of learning.

Anyway, all in all I think I'll make a guideline for beginners, to cover up all major issues that they ALL have, so this whole thing won't seem that harsh.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:49 PM
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:57 PM   #6
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technically the "natural" way of learning is trial and error but not with models anims or skins it is all about the fun but its not too fun to get flamed out about how youre model anim or skin sucks so badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles
I would agree with you generally. Although for noob 2 I slightly disagree. I think the main problem with people who post their first work is that they don't put time into it. I do terrain, and people post a terrain that probably took about half an hour or maybe even ten minutes. I spend a minimum of an hour, and good work takes longer. Some can spend weeks on just a terrain. Models would be even worse. People make a WIP and post it. They need to keep it longer and work on it.

i think youre right i posted my first skin on the hive and sure enough it got flamed out and denyed because it was crap and it was crap becouse i spent roughly an hour on it including all of the updates anyway I'm still looking for the reason why my skins suck so much and my last one was below average so I'm getting better it almost got accepted (i think) anyway noobs don't be stupid like me work harder and make sure it actually is good
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:44 AM   #7
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I guess I should wait for TDR to cool down before I accidentally blurt out that those cards I submitted were firsts... dangit!
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:52 AM   #8
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well...those are cards....just planes...you can't go wrong with just a plane...
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
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well...those are cards....just planes...you can't go wrong with just a plane...

Is that a challenge?
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDR
I have seen many people, and not only at these forums, posting their very first work. These people can be classified into 2 categories:

1. Retarded noobs - they post their first ever thing and say "this is first model of mine, w00t do ya think? ". Or they just post "first model" and that's it. They don't even ask for critique directly, just after the first wave of flames they say something like "OMG STFU I just want critcq! (dramatisation)". These kind of people deserve no attention in my opinion, they just need a decent smack on the head to wake them up.

2. Good noobs - they are just clueless. They post their first thing and ask for advice besides "what do you think". But why is this still a bad thing to do? Well because:
  1. Think that you're not the first one who ever posted like this. Millions of people from all around the world posted like this (not only on this forum) and they recieved millions of answers. It's just really annoying when they keep coming, instead of searching and reading the comments that other people recieved on the same kind of thing. You must understand that people got tired to answer the same things over and over again. So do us all a favor and USE THE SEARCH FEATURE.
  2. You might think that your model/animation looks great for your first time. Well let me tell you a little secret: it doesn't. It sucks big time actually. There's no "it's good for your first time", it's the same all over the place. So spare us of your pride and go document yourself on how to improve instead.
So in conclusion, what to do with your first model/animation? Keep it for yourself, that's what. Let it rot on your hdd and go read tutorials instead. This forum is dedicated to helping users that need critique and advice on a model/animation they are working at (unless it's their first thing). Read MODEL (made by you from the very first vertex), not GEOMERGED MODEL.

Now you might start saying stuff about the second model...well, that's ok the way I see it, because you're already initiated and you might want some extra direct help, especially maybe about the workflow. Though it is still best to search for tutorials first and if you don't find it there, ask here.

Feel free to comment about this and let me know whether you agree or not (with arguments).
No-no! I mean "yes", because saying that a model uploaded by you is your first one is silly and nooby. Never say about your first model, let it look as any other model. If you don't know what to say at the description of the model, don't say nothing, but read other model's descriptions and take them as an example. But I recommend you to say model's storyline, what types of scenarios it can be used at.

TDR, you shouldn't say that newbs shouldn't upload their models at all, because their models might be useful, but to search if there's already uploaded a thing like the newb's, and that they must not say it's their very first model.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:53 AM   #11
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I lol'd
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:23 PM   #12
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Slightly frightened by the aggression in this topic. But I sense why. Newbs are newbs (As I am one of them, though not to message board sites or WC3, THANK GOD). They dumb stuff. There's not much to say about a first model than: a) it sucks, b) adequate, or c) its good in it's own way.

Which, actually, is the only response you can really give to any resource. Then you elaborate and add detail to your statement.

If we had restraining collars for newbs (per se), that'd be nice.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:33 PM   #13
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so... never post your first skin/model or what ever... well if nobody ever posted their first ones there would be no THW or Wc3c because nobody ever posted their first skin/model or icon.
Know what I mean?
(EDIT) Oh and TDR, why are you the model moderator when nobody can post their first in here, wow. Ever thought of that?

Last edited by Reedoxx : 10-14-2009 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:37 PM   #14
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The point is for you to learn from the shittiness of your first and second and so on models by looking at tutorials and continuing practicing. Then after several models when you think (honestly) that it looks good, post it and get some feedback. That you've tried very hard to develop on your own says a lot about the quality person you are and how serious you are at improving. Only then can anyone here really help you.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising_Dusk
The point is for you to learn from the shittiness of your first and second and so on models by looking at tutorials and continuing practicing. Then after several models when you think (honestly) that it looks good, post it and get some feedback. That you've tried very hard to develop on your own says a lot about the quality person you are and how serious you are at improving. Only then can anyone here really help you.

Putting in 8 hours initiative to find that tutorial you're looking for when someone can respond in 5 minutes with a link to that tutorial is just stupid.

Which is... exactly what you're suggesting.

Fact is, you're extremely elitist.

If you show people kindness and be helpful, people will return the favor.

From what I've seen you only harbor a childish "holier than thou" opinion of everyone.

There's no initiative in scanning hundreds of topics to find one small speck of information (or 100 partial pieces of information which still don't get you where you want to go) when you could ask.

Fun fact: Help others and some of the people you helped will want to help others in return.

If you act like an elitist jerk, you'll drive away people who may have greater creative talents and experience than you in other fields which could be useful when they transfer that skill to the community.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim.
The rails are horrible, the 'dung' is crap (no pun intended), and you need to update the Winchester pictures. Retitled thread to Western Pack.

Tim is also a great example of this.

Its editing for a video game called Warcraft III, you're not political pundits or little boys on the elementary school playground.

Instead of shelling out immature, intolerant remarks, tell people how they can improve upon their work.

Last edited by funonabun : 10-14-2009 at 11:39 PM.
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