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Old 01-31-2006, 01:07 PM   #16
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I give this approval straight off the cuff, I played it almost religiously for 2 weeks with the same crowd of people. Unlike so many maps on Bnet it requires team work and thus makes the actual users bond (all the regulars are on my friends list now, for instance).

There is one concern however, there is the ammo hack, which I'm sure you're aware of, also when the boat departs the map with the civilians on board it can cause a fatal error. Though I personally believe these to be fairly minor issues, the ammo hack you need to be taught, it isn't something you can do by accident or instinctively.

Also, the point about getting killed off early is wrong, I think it was Tim who mentioned it. That, I believe is part of the fun of this map, struggling each time to see how far you can get, especially when you're the last person left alive and trying to take on the world, it can be very fun and amusing. If you disagreed with approving this map then I believe you should give it another couple of games, it does take a bit of getting used to, also, try and play with a full house and the same people for those couple of games, the gameplay goes up incredibly...

IMO easily the most addictive map on Bnet that requires more than 2 brain cells to play properly.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:31 PM   #17
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Approved Map: NOTD Aftermath

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The ammo hack and boat crash from version 1.1c has been addressed and fixed in Aftermath 1.2. I will post the complete change log here, as a reference.

==========================================

Aftermath 1.2 Change Log
Release Date 30th January 2006
General Themes of Change
- More maneuvering and group movement, less static positions
- Greater depth
- Transition from a largely GUI code to JASS.

==============================================

Bug Fixes
- Fixed a bug where Battalion UAV does not register any hits taken.
- Fixed a bug where Battalion UAV's Laser Designator does not produce a messege and ping.
- Fixed some occasional convoy pathing issues.
- Doesn't display "Black Hawk Crew have died due to excessive blood loss." text if all marines are dead when time limit ends for Black Hawk wave.
- Fixed some AI problems with the first Unknown Entity Computer.
- Fixed a rare crash that occured with the Black Hawk survivor rescue sequence. (Caserbob)
- Fixed a serious ammunition bug. (Mr. Freeze & USMC Delta)
- Heavy Support attack type correctly changed to Machine Gun instead of Rifle.
- Delta Force, Force Recon and ALO selection tooltip typos and inaccuracies corrected.
- Fixed a bug in vital signs where it displayed that marines were badly injured when a player has not selected a marine yet.
- Marine spawns on water now produce a splash effect instead of dust. (Concrete)
- Fixed a TOT Mission loophole.
- Mend now has a mana cost of 25.
- Fixed random crashes caused by a unit cleanup trigger.
- Fixed a bug with Ammo Modifiers causing items to occasionally lose their damage bonuses.
- Added active borders to Claymore, Chain Explosive, Medkit, Fibrin Bandage, Ammo Box and Magazine icons. (Infrane)
- Fixed a bug where Delta Force remain idle if the Marines kill Lyganesh before they detonate the CEs.
- Deltas will not blow the CEs if Lyganesh has very little HP left.
- Navy Transport resupply now gives HS +2 mags instead of +3. (Pipedream)

New Features and Improvements
- Added Night Vision Goggles for all classes.
- Darkened the map slightly, giving a greater night time feel, and reducing your general visibility.
- Experience gain from cannibalized increased slightly.
- Dead Battalion UAV player now gets a pet. (lost-azn-boy)
- Modified Wave 5 - Convoy.
- Reloading sounds are now 3D, and slightly tweaked.
- Self-Repair ability added to Battalion UAV.
- Reduced the number of medical items in town. C-130 airdrops are now more widely spaced out.
- Time required to enter camoflouge increased.
- Small Force Recon movespeed increase.
- Reduced Claymore activation time from 10 to 5 seconds.
- Battalion UAV hit points decreased.
- Reconnaisance and Covert Operations now require Hero level 3 instead of 2.
- Cut down the number of function calls whenever possible. Reduced script length by almost 10%.
- Reduced the amount of first-cast lag.
- Experience awarded for successfully completing training mode increased from 75 to 250.
- Added a very basic Corpsman AI.
- Players are now granted vision of Marine Forces during Chapter 3.
- Increased Blood Transfusion's mana cost. Hit Points gained increased.
- Added Engineering Skills sub-menu for Combat Engineer.
- Terrain size increased by 32x32 tiles. Added an airport section in North East of the map.
- Marine projectiles now deal less damage against Kevlar Armor. (Notnewguy)
- Time for Surveillance Sentries wave increased by 1 minute, due to the increase in map size.
- Marksman's Critical Strike is now placed in the Actions menu. Desert Eagle brought forward.
- Medal requirements are now slightly less stringent.
- Improved monofilament cartridge's tooltip.
- Slight tweak in Muzzle Brake Suppressor mechanics, so that they Marksman doesn't seem to disappear momentarily with each shot.
- Small change in intro music theme.
- Combat Knife added to Grunt, Delta Force, Marksman and Force Recon.
- Air support now provides converage across the entire map during Wave 4.
- ALO base mana increased.
- ALO attack weapon changed from M4A1 to submachine gun (800 attack range).
- RPG cooldown decreased from 80 seconds to 60 seconds.
- Energy Cell mana regeneration bonus increased from 35% to 50%.
- RPG casting range increased from 1800 to 3500.
- Moirae tracker ping interval increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
- Updated Marine chatter to reflect more on actual gameplay events.
- GPS Satellite ability added to Communications Array. This is a compromise due to the failure to repair vision problems in the Comm. Array. (Amoyensis)
- New pet abilities and traits added.
- Pet Size now drops on death.
- Pet HP now increases by 35 for every 10 pet levels.
- Pet speed increases marginally with each level.
- At level 60, pets gain Sharp Teeth ability and lose permanent invisibility.
- Pet growth rate reduced to 2%.
- RPG and SMAW firing time reduced.
- Navy Transport now provides continuous fire support.
- Chaingun can now be disassembled. (Demon12)
- Grunts now start with a Smoke Grenade and Corpsman with a Medkit.
- New items : Detonation Cord, Smoke Grenade, Pancor Jackhammer, Nano Body Armor.
- Base Marine movespeed increased. Magazines held by Marines now slow your movespeed by 1.4 per magazine.
- Items now have a stack limit : Ammo Box (8), Shotguns (24), Grenade Launchers (10), Chain Explosives (12), Claymores (9)
- Reduced the charges in CEs and Claymores, increased damage.
- First airdrop begins only at the middle of Wave 1.
- Firebat now has fuel capacity of 2500 fuel units.
- Fibrin Bandage stack limit increased to 3, AV stack limit increased to 5.
- '-ms' command now displays every player's movespeed.
- M242 Rounds per magazine increased from 25 to 35.
- Flare Gun item added to ALO and Engineer.
- Greater clarity in mission objectives.
- Addressed static strategies (prolonged camping)
- Parasite Spore range reduced from 1000 to 400. Movement speed increased slightly.
- Reduced Cauterize's cooldown from 20 to 15 seconds. Increased mana cost by 5.
- All classes can now use M203. Reasoning : There is a pistol-grip variant.
- Creeps are slightly easier to kill during the first 4 waves.
- Surveillance Sentries no longer need to be activated after placement.
- Shiva drop will periodically ping on Wave 8 - Moirae. (lil_nicky888)
- Hero Level 3 now required to learn Napalm. Friendly fire from Napalm removed.
- Movement speed reduction from carrying M242 Components reduced from 45 to 40.
- Scaled down Lyganesh slightly.
- Delta Operators don't wander around to their deaths anymore. (crosses fingers)
- Dead Players now get mini-marines on Wave 5, Wave 10 and Wave 15. The mini-marines can be accumulated.
- Wave 16 LZ missions now give all players Marines, not just those alive.
- Delta Forces' main objective is now to assist you in the retrieval of the M242 Chaingun.
- You can now save your codes a maximum of 2 times.
- Players now just need to move next to the M242 Chaingun to operate it.
- Hits Taken calculation and ailments now more accurate. (Replaced unit is attacked event with unit is damaged)
- Battalion UAV's airstrike is now more immediate.
- Battalion UAV now takes 3 seconds to pick and drop items. This cannot be cancelled once the action is performed.
- Battalion UAV now has 4 inventory slots. Battalion UAV loses 40ms with each item acquired.
- Suppresive fire has a fixed duration of 10 seconds for all levels. HS remains stationary during this time.
- Five difficulty modes now available : I Can Win, Bring 'Em On, Hurt Me Plenty, Hardcore, Nightmare.
- Each civilian that is brought successfully to the Navy Transport now reduces difficulty marginally.
- Civilians are now extracted through house to house searches in Wave 7.
- CAS (Close Air Support) Mission implemented for Wave 17. This will be further developed in the next patch.
- Implemented rudimentary FieldChat system.
- Fire Artillery ability now renamed to the more accurate 'Fire Mission'. Learn and usage hotkeys are now aligned to F.
- Battalion UAV Airstrike ability now available only from Wave 15 onwards. Cooldown reduced from 270 seconds to 60 seconds.
- Increased Recon UAV visual range from 325 to 375.
- Scratch Behind Ears hotkey changed to B. Earlier conflict with Cannibalize hotkey. (yukie darling)
- Cocoons Mission introduced in Revelation Chapter.
- You cannot earn medals in I Can Win and Bring 'Em On difficulties.
- The Pilot's death in Wave 4 : BHD now has some adverse consequences.
- Killing other Marines now result in an Article 15.
- UAV can now repair all Mechanical units. (mef-cori)
- Combat Knife moved to the main action menu. (USMC-Delta)
- You can now view your pet's movespeed with -ms. (USMC-Delta)
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:13 AM   #18
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In light of these changes I give my full support for this to be a hosted map/in the downloads section.
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Old 02-06-2006, 04:42 AM   #19
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Aftermath is a great map to be played.

Played that map constantly with a couple of clan mates and learned the ropes, soon I find it very interesting and addictive too. Theres also the urge to accumulate exp to get higher ranks so I can use higher lvl positions such as Artillery Liasion Officer, Recon, and Delta Force. Seems like a bright future for this map.

This game not for everyone though, I tried playing with a couple of new players and teaching them what I know. But to no avail, they kept asking why we were running around and said it was boring to run.. I tried explaining there were objectives to be done, but... heck I'm sure some of you have encountered such players before, constantly wont listen to others and tend to act on their own.

But hey, once you get the hang of it, it's a pretty good game. Nice job Azazel_ Love the updates too.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:38 AM   #20
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I started off in NotD II and stumbled upon this while waiting for NotD III. Been wanting to say this for ages...good job, Azazel_

Oh, I'm malaysian too. if you see on on blueserver, the nick's bananaboy.

keep up the good work.
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:59 PM   #21
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Please note you need at least two more staff approvals, one being an admin. I did not approve, so you are left with Whitehorn, Dorelian, or Vexorian. Don't PM or bother them, I am just letting you know what you need.
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:53 AM   #22
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Approved Map: NOTD Aftermath

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Noted. You do not approve it as it's current state, and if the map is still in this section by 28th February, then you can play the updated version and make a re-evaluation. This map cannot be judged meaningfully in 2-3 test games, because of the nature of NotD survival maps. They are not 'easy' to get into, but offer reasonably seasoned players a good and growing experience. Maps like these are supported by a community of players that guide new ones, which is also a principal ingredient in developing relationships that last beyond a single game.

There will always be different evaluating methods in each genre. What's a characteristic for one may not be present in other, or even a favourable one. NOTD Aftermath currently has 1.2-1.4k direct downloads from the following group of sites after 8 days of release :
- www.wc3sear.ch
- www.epicwar.com
- maps.worldofwar.net
- Private servers : TM Server and Pipedream's hosting.

The number of downloads may not be totally objective due to the possibility of spamming/download bots, but that can be said for every other map's download statistics. Ceteris paribus, Aftermath has a reasonably moderate community that can sustain and develop new players. If some members of the committee may not agree fully about the game, what about the other players who do. There are positive and critical testimonies of this game in many websites, which shows a reasonable amount of interest. Many criticisms have been acted upon and so have those on the first page of this thread. Wc3Campaigns serves the community, and the community's evaluation may at times differ with the evaluation committee. Yes, it is your website in the end and you paid for it, not the community. I guess that's a subjective perspective. I also believe that Aftermath meets the basic tenets of quality and novelty, and that other aspects of the evaluation seem more subjective and not easily agreed upon. Perhaps the map should be played a little more, as many players have testified that they truly begin to enjoy the game once they understand it. Again, I am taking continuous steps to improve playability for newer players, but not at the expense of the people who are dedicated to the game.

I have offered to host and guide games with members in US East to develop a better understanding of it. A SgtMajor and Pvt's view of the game is very different. You have given a reasonable amount of action steps for other maps, and I can only act on what people say. Are there still any unaddressed concerns?
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:29 AM   #23
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I don't really think learning curve or difficulty should be considered a problem - maps like DOTA and TOB have ridiculous learning curves for completely new players, and that hasn't hampered their popularity any. If anything, a steep learning curve keeps the mediocre players away. You can't please everyone, so don't bother trying.

I approve =).
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:32 AM   #24
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Give it a chance - it's really addictive once you get the hang of it.

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Old 02-08-2006, 03:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadence
I don't really think learning curve or difficulty should be considered a problem - maps like DOTA and TOB have ridiculous learning curves for completely new players, and that hasn't hampered their popularity any. If anything, a steep learning curve keeps the mediocre players away. You can't please everyone, so don't bother trying.

I approve =).
It's not about popularity. It's about if its a good map.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:26 AM   #26
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Thumbs up All the way.

I'm a vet of the game, and I continue to play it regularly. Why? For several reasons.

Although it may seem somewhat repeatable, I never play the same game twice. Different players have different playing styles, and the missions are random. It's quite hard to predict the game until it is revealed intentionally. I find it interesting to find what strategies work in what situations, what skills are fitted best to the team.

The map has been completely rennovated, and gives it a completely unique look and feel. Every detail has been closely looked over, and Azazel continues to update the game as it progresses.

It isn't a game where you can just mass, point, and click such as footmen frenzy. It takes team coordination to even consider beating the game. It also encourages the more experienced players to show the bars for the newer ones.

Not to mention you can track your experience as you progress. That is most certainly not the main reason to continue playing.

That's my thought in a nutcase.
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:22 AM   #27
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I highly respect NOTD II as well as NOTD : Aftermath, both games are well made and are very open to different strategys.

I love NOTDA, one, becauses its a sequal of notd 2, which i loved, they are quite easy to get into, unless your a DOTA moron that won't play a game if they die in the first 2 minutes and don't own everything on the map, which tends to happen to alot of first comers.

In contrast to NOTD 2, NOTDA is acutally alot more open ended, the missions add zest to the rather monotonous supress and hold postion that alot of notd 2 was.

The game revolves highly around teamwork, which can be the downfall, however, if the newbs don't stick together, they are picked off very quickly.

I believe it would be smart of wc3c to accept NOTDA, because we are trying to house the best maps out there, and this is certantly one of them.

Hurrah!
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:49 AM   #28
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I tried this one out, and it has a bunch of potential. However, as other people were saying, the camera ticks me off a wee bit. I'm not sure really, but would it be terrible to reduce the range/sight of the marines a little bit and keep the normal camera?
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:54 PM   #29
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Aftermath is using a normal camera view. What you see on the screen is a miniaturization of every unit, because it is relatively more efficient and straightforward. This makes the map look larger than it is, and more veterans any reduction in field of view is a disadvantage. However, I will keep your opinion in mind.
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Old 02-15-2006, 12:17 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazel_
Noted. You do not approve it as it's current state, and if the map is still in this section by 28th February, then you can play the updated version and make a re-evaluation. This map cannot be judged meaningfully in 2-3 test games, because of the nature of NotD survival maps. They are not 'easy' to get into, but offer reasonably seasoned players a good and growing experience. Maps like these are supported by a community of players that guide new ones, which is also a principal ingredient in developing relationships that last beyond a single game.

There will always be different evaluating methods in each genre. What's a characteristic for one may not be present in other, or even a favourable one. NOTD Aftermath currently has 1.2-1.4k direct downloads from the following group of sites after 8 days of release :
- www.wc3sear.ch
- www.epicwar.com
- maps.worldofwar.net
- Private servers : TM Server and Pipedream's hosting.

The number of downloads may not be totally objective due to the possibility of spamming/download bots, but that can be said for every other map's download statistics. Ceteris paribus, Aftermath has a reasonably moderate community that can sustain and develop new players. If some members of the committee may not agree fully about the game, what about the other players who do. There are positive and critical testimonies of this game in many websites, which shows a reasonable amount of interest. Many criticisms have been acted upon and so have those on the first page of this thread. Wc3Campaigns serves the community, and the community's evaluation may at times differ with the evaluation committee. Yes, it is your website in the end and you paid for it, not the community. I guess that's a subjective perspective. I also believe that Aftermath meets the basic tenets of quality and novelty, and that other aspects of the evaluation seem more subjective and not easily agreed upon. Perhaps the map should be played a little more, as many players have testified that they truly begin to enjoy the game once they understand it. Again, I am taking continuous steps to improve playability for newer players, but not at the expense of the people who are dedicated to the game.

I have offered to host and guide games with members in US East to develop a better understanding of it. A SgtMajor and Pvt's view of the game is very different. You have given a reasonable amount of action steps for other maps, and I can only act on what people say. Are there still any unaddressed concerns?
I completly agree with your post, NOTD or anyother genres need to be rated by those who play it, for example you canot rate a Strategy game if you only played FPS on your PC. Other thing is the WC3 editor as flexible s it is it doesent allow some all new things, this is only a map for WC 3 and not a game and should be rated like a map, further more it's not like those who make maps get money for it, at least most of it so you cant expect someone sitting home 24 hours seven days a week and making a map, all have real life responcabilities and things to do and a map is not their life, all who do it do it beacose they are willing to do it for they own satisfaction or anyother thing that might be.
I give you all the support for this map, nice job man and all the people who helped you
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