~Custom Race Creation~ (no official name)

[Nuclear Arbitor]

you know, that could also (quadruple?) as a pipe

[deolrin]

So... I'll remove the headdress, add the Portrait dreadlocks to the actual model, remove the back shrub thing(though I have NO idea what I'll replace it with. Adding a cloak requires adding cloak animations, which is an 'animation thing'. I recommend asking DonDustin from the Hive for help with that) and I'll let you guys decide what the weapon's gonna be, because I really don't know what I'm gonna do with it. The animations have him kinda throwing it, so what [D] made kind of makes sense.

[Michael Peppers]

About the AI... sorry, K, exams etc. will keep me busy until next week, but I'm still willing to make it ASAP.

[Kyrbi0]

Originally Posted by MP

About the AI... sorry, K, exams etc. will keep me busy until next week, but I'm still willing to make it ASAP.

Hey, no obligation, no problems.

Originally Posted by deolrin

So... I'll remove the headdress, add the Portrait dreadlocks to the actual model, remove the back shrub thing(though I have NO idea what I'll replace it with. Adding a cloak requires adding cloak animations, which is an 'animation thing'. I recommend asking DonDustin from the Hive for help with that) and I'll let you guys decide what the weapon's gonna be, because I really don't know what I'm gonna do with it. The animations have him kinda throwing it, so what [D] made kind of makes sense.

(Headdress) - Yeah, the leaf-feather-band thing (IMO) was silly. Although he will need something to cover the nasty seam caused by the hair, unless....
(Dreadlocks) - Bwaha, dreadlocks are awexome. If it works, and if it's not too high-poly, that'd be neat.
(Back Shrub) - Yesh. It is silly. I'll have to talk to DonDustin, good idea (I was talking with Weazel from here about animation things, but that was 2 yrs ago, and I haven't heard from him since...)
(Weapon) - Yeah, it's still weighing on my mind. Good point with the attack anims, though; speaking of which, do you have any ability (Magos/Warforger/Oinkerwinkle) to transfer single/sets of anims from one model to another? I can't remember if that was possible, but if it was, it could be plausibly done to give him a more fitting attack animation (i.e. people don't throw darts, they shoot them. :P) Just a thought.


~EDIT~
Found the conversation with [D]/t-Revellion-t where he gave Permission to Edit (to me/others):

Originally Posted by MSN Conversation

Kyrbi0 says (11:02 PM):
Well, will you get mad if I do some model editing to your Skulker for my personal projects? Or have others do so?
T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:02 PM):
Go ahead
Kyrbi0 says (11:02 PM):
Alright, thanks.

Just for kicks, the context of the conversation... Originally Posted by MSN Conversation Kyrbi0 says (10:59 PM): But it's like I made a bunch of suggestions, you took the general concept, made something different, and then got bored and gave up. T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:00 PM): I make models that can be used in a general setting T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:00 PM): Tweaking the Skulker's story to the idea of creating little mounds near trees or whatever T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:00 PM): is completely acceptable. Kyrbi0 says (11:00 PM): Sure, for general use. T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:01 PM): I've got a series of Godslayers to model. T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:01 PM): if you'll excuse me. Kyrbi0 says (11:01 PM): But if you didn't want to make something closer to the original concept, why did you take the request in the first place? Isn't the entire *point* to make something that I request?? T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:01 PM): the point was to get you something close to what you requested. Kyrbi0 says (11:01 PM): ... Kyrbi0 says (11:02 PM): Well, will you get mad if I do some model editing to your Skulker for my personal projects? Or have others do so? T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:02 PM): Go ahead Kyrbi0 says (11:02 PM): Alright, thanks. Also, the portrait worked out really well. I'm glad you got it to work. T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:02 PM): 60% of my Request models were made for others to finish up. Kyrbi0 says (11:02 PM): Huh. T-Revellion-T (1) says (11:02 PM): unless they're simple, or terribly interesting. Kyrbi0 says (11:03 PM): Kinda wish I'd known that in the start. O_o

^Meh.

[deolrin]

Here we go.
Should I also remove the alternate animations, though? The ones that have him cramped up into a shrub, that is.

[Kyrbi0]

Hot dang. However, I still don't have Wc3 or Magos/War3Viewer, so could I bug you to put up a screenshot or two of it/them?

Alternates Removal - Yes, sorta. Well, totally. It's cool and all, but doesn't fit. Basically (I'll have to look up all the details I wrote out), he needs to be able to Crawl (have a Crawling dummy somewhere, that's one set of Alternate's), and then Climb is just another set of Alternate's, ("Stand - Climb", "Attack - Climb", "Death - Climb", etc). No model change or height change (all done via triggering), but him crouching, holding the blow-pipe-thingy.

(if that doesn't make sense, let me know.)

[deolrin]

Well... I can't animate, so... :P
You better ask someone more competent at that. Maybe you could even try enlist the mighty Jigrael's help? He's known as Tarrasque on the Hive now.
Here's a couple screenshots + the model without Alternate animations:

[Kyrbi0]

Originally Posted by deolrin

Well... I can't animate, so... :P
You better ask someone more competent at that. Maybe you could even try enlist the mighty Jigrael's help? He's known as Tarrasque on the Hive now.
Here's a couple screenshots + the model without Alternate animations:

Ah, yes. I was just stating what needs to happen, not necessarily "adding it to the list". :P
Basically yes, go ahead and delete everything associated with the "pile-o-leaves" to make way for everything else that needs to go on that model.
(Whoops, scratch that, you already did that.)

~~~

Daaang! He's already looking a lot better (no offense, but I always hated that leaf-rack thing.) I wasn't sure the hi-poly Dreadlocks would look good in-game. (... and I'm still not, without the game) However, it seems you've solved the gaping chasm on his head quite nicely. Thanks!

Portrait still uses Sunken Ruins leaves, but that's probably alright for flavor... However, I forgot about the ones on his arm-shield-mask thing. If those could be removed, that'd be appreciated.

Dang, looks like Headhunter anims. That doesn't give us a lot to work with (even with AnimTransfer). Headhunter has a good crouch going for the "in-the-tree" thing, but A: I don't want him confused with the actual "Hunter" or "Troll Headhunter", and B: he's too low-profile that way.
Yeah, I'll look around for teh animatorz. :P

~~~

Alright. Thanks a lot; he's looking better so far (not sure what that skull thing on his chest is, exactly, but meh). I'll have to get back to you on the animator (since that will determine, to some degree, the weapon we do.)

~Good News~ We're moving into this house, officially, last night and all today
~Bad News~ I just got 4-1/2 hrs of sleep after doing renovations, AND we're still setting computers up. So no Warcraft... yet. :P

Thanks again, Deolrin. I really appreciate your willingness.

[Michael Peppers]

Oh yeah! Guess what? Yes, you've got it: I've started working on the AI today. I have yet to make it hit the food cap when training units, but so far it looks good.


The race after ~5 minutes.


For the Lulz series: Yellow builds base where Orange wanted to, some spawned Hydras attack, kill the Orangey and damage the Yellow base, but they get what they deserved in the end.


Now it's getting interesting... AI vs AI FTW!

On a side note... WTF?


The first AI prototype is attached, import it without paths, then modify the JungleInit trigger this way:

JASS:

private function Init takes nothing returns nothing
        local quest q
        local CustomRace c = CustomRace.create("Jungle Trolls",RACE_ORC,0.9)
        call c.setTownHall('jts2')                  // Grisly Message
        call c.addWorkerType('jtu2',c.NEAR_MINE,5)  // Groundling
        call c.addHeroType('JTUC')                  // Headshrinker
        call c.addHeroType('JTUD')                  // Medicine Mon
        call c.addHeroType('JTUE')                  // Viper Priestess
        call c.addHeroType('JTUF')                  // Warbringer
        call c.setAIScript("jungletroll.ai")
        
        call ForForce(GetPlayersAll(), function DisableSpellbooks)

You have to add the highlighted line and then... WHAM! It works! =D

If there's something in its behavior that you don't like, tell me and I'll tweak it to fit your desires.

Ah... and the AI won't use Tiki Warriors nor Basilisks as of now... I may add them in once I get to see how much free food they have before hitting the cap now.

EDIT:


My allies counterattack and beat the shEEt out of the Yellow aZZes. They are toasted! <3

[Kyrbi0]

Hard-core! Wow it's been awhile; I almost forgot what they all looked like. Dang, that's pretty amazing. I have 0% experience with AI's, so anything you've done amounts to wizardry in my eyes. Impressive. That's just really cool to see them fighting against each other, by themselves. (can't remember if I changed the whole "Boar Hut" thing after talking to Dusk or not... Are the Boars still required as Supply-givers, or just visual?)

(As to the "WTF" pic, I have no idea. What type of building was it, and were you building it/destroying it/repairing it/etc?)

~~~

~Update~
So I've managed to make a DL trip; got everything up to this point (custom race system, withering kind, neutral heroes, jungle-troll-fever!, Jungle Dartmon model, etc). So far we've found the CD-Key for Wc3 and downloaded that to the computer; however, we're still missing Frozen Throne and all my programs (so since all the new maps and such are made for Wc3:TFT, still unable to check). However, I have them. Thanks again!

Not sure why this was so long in coming... So I apologize Michael and deolrin; not sure what took me so long in doing so, but I added you two to the first page of "people who've helped/team members" table. Thanks for all you've done! Hopefully somehow that list makes it into the inside of the Trolls-MPQ/maps themselves. :P

[cosmicat]

Oh, so that's what you were talking about (the WTF pic). Supposedly (I think Levi said so, but that may be misattributed) that's the bone issue thing with the town hall.

Peppers, deolrin, Askhati, and a few others are in the map credits for their specific contributions (where applicable) as well as a "Special Thanks / Team Members" sort of tab, IIRC (I still can't check either, but should be able to soon >.<).

Boars are mostly visual, but have a weak little worker-strength attack that they randomly use on things they wander past. I don't remember why.

[deolrin]

Ahem, guys. Please check what model that "WTF" picture is... That's a pretty severe model-bug that I might know the cause of. Either way, I can either try fixing it, or, if it doesn't work, the whole model will have to be remade... If it's that sweet town hall from the Hive, then I simply can't help you. (With permission or without)
If it's one of the models I made(there's 3 of them, IIRC, 2 of them have that exact 'log-hut' thing with TC stripes) then I will be able to fix it up easily, or, if that doesn't work, remaking them won't be too difficult either.

[Michael Peppers]

Originally Posted by Kyrbi0

Hard-core! Wow it's been awhile; I almost forgot what they all looked like. Dang, that's pretty amazing. I have 0% experience with AI's, so anything you've done amounts to wizardry in my eyes. Impressive. That's just really cool to see them fighting against each other, by themselves.

Yep. I'm impressed too, you have to see it in action. It's "decent"! =)

Originally Posted by Kyrbi0

(As to the "WTF" pic, I have no idea. What type of building was it, and were you building it/destroying it/repairing it/etc?)

It is definitely, 100% the Orange AI's Town Hall, which was idle that moment, I guess. It happens only when a seagull passes near a Town Hall, so...

Originally Posted by cosmicat

Oh, so that's what you were talking about (the WTF pic). Supposedly (I think Levi said so, but that may be misattributed) that's the bone issue thing with the town hall.

Either Levi or I said that... but whatever, that is the only bug that can cause pieces floating around and attaching themselves to other models that I know of.

So... yeah, that's unfortunate, as deolrin just said he can't fix that. =(

Originally Posted by Kyrbi0

So I've managed to make a DL trip; got everything up to this point (custom race system, withering kind, neutral heroes, jungle-troll-fever!, Jungle Dartmon model, etc).

Yay! =D

Originally Posted by Kyrbi0

I didn't see that coming and it wasn't really that necessary, but I'll admit it's nice to see my name there.

EDIT: Was gonna make a test game and a replay with some comments, but Wc3 crashed in between the game. =(
(A great one, lots of spars and even some "free for all" situation, with 3 armies fighting against eachother in a single battle)

I noticed that the AI has some rough edges... and I blame Blizzard but will try to solve those bugs as well as I can, but I found some bugs in the race itself too:

1. Random "Distorts" from unknown locations still happen, this sometimes causes unjustified "Town is under attack!" messages, that us, as humans, may ignore, but AIs don't. (or maybe that message is the Boars' fault, which, BTW, should be un-locusted as soon as they start walking on "walkable" ground via a pathability check IMO)
2. The teamcolor of the Hexxer's mount and the Marauder's rider is never (well... mostly) that of their player

NEW EDIT: I am attaching the modified map to make AI testing easier (if you're interested give it a go!) + a replay in which I strangely manage to get a good JT game strategy to actually work. (Never won with JT before today =/)

[deolrin]

It happens only when a seagull passes near a Town Hall, so...

Wait, are you serious? Only a seagull?
Damn, Blizzard - Why do your bugs act so weird?

Well... Can't you in theory just remove all the seagulls and solve it that way? Just replace them with vultures or something. Either way, I opened that model in Magos once, and... God, was it buggy. Everything fucked up. I can only assume that Magos was NOT used to create this model. MDLVis, or some other program, perhaps.

Oh well. Even if I could fix it(even General Frank himself said that the only solution was to remake the model, but I think I might have discovered an alternate solution for it, but I'm not 100% sure it works), I'd need permission from the model's creator, and he's probably long-gone.

The teamcolor of the Hexxer's mount and the Marauder's rider is never (well... mostly) that of their player

I'm pretty sure I know the cause of that. For some reason, team-colored attachments are team-colored according to the player number... That is, Player 1's attachments will always be red, Player 2's attachments will always be blue, etc. If you find an ability that DOESN'T screw it up that way, or find a way to fix it otherwise, please let me know; We're having the exact same problem with the Death Knight's cape in SoC.

[Michael Peppers]

Originally Posted by deolrin

Wait, are you serious? Only a seagull?
Damn, Blizzard - Why do your bugs act so weird?

I guess it's because critter models have been hastily done (mostly), so they may have some bug themselves that attracts unattached pieces of models. (In fact I've only seen such bug on critters and on badly made unit models... looks related to attachments for what I can tell)
Plus, the seagull flies, so the effect is 100% visible all of the time. The piece attached by the Town Hall goes downward and may be mostly covered by the land in case of land units, so other units/critters might be affected. It's not likely, but possible.
Also, on that map, seagulls are always the first critters that get close enough to the halls to trigger the bug, and probably "free" pieces like that get attached only once, so it's anyone's guess if that's seagull-exclusive.

Originally Posted by deolrin

Well... Can't you in theory just remove all the seagulls and solve it that way? Just replace them with vultures or something.

Err... unfortunately no, since this race should be playable (via MPQ) on every melee map out there. (Or so I guess, but I bet Kyrbi0 will confirm what I just said)

Originally Posted by deolrin

I'm pretty sure I know the cause of that. For some reason, team-colored attachments are team-colored according to the player number... That is, Player 1's attachments will always be red, Player 2's attachments will always be blue, etc. If you find an ability that DOESN'T screw it up that way, or find a way to fix it otherwise, please let me know; We're having the exact same problem with the Death Knight's cape in SoC.

Will do some research. To start, I'd try with changing the color of the unit upon its creation to match the Player's one. Who knows... it's worth a try.