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Old 01-13-2005, 03:31 PM   #1
Fladian
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How not to ask for help FAQ

Yeah, you just read that right. Isn't it horrible? It finally happened, I was asked to write a new FAQ to replace the older one of SA-Magic. I can already hear the people thinking 'Fladian writing a FAQ, that's a disaster! What did we do wrong?' or anything similar to that. Well, to make matters worse, my opinion is completely the same of it. What did I do wrong to do deserve this? I was good for you guys, right?
If you guys would've behaved well, you could've saved me from… um… let's start already.

As some people may have noticed ' definitely not all, otherwise it wouldn't happen ' often the team gathering threads here are being gathered on a way that isn't correct. They are usually lacking too much information what makes it hard for the reader to see what it is exactly the leader wants. This thread is supposed to help people to gather a team better, though I got more of a feeling it'll become a spamfest. Usually they say something like: “I'm starting a campaign'? but are forgetting to give anything specific with it, like a story or any jobs that are available.
Some even mention that you will have to PM them to hear the story, but with some new rules (where I'll get back to) there is a chance threads such as those will be immediately deleted. Yes, you heard that right. By asking them to send it by PM it is making the forum completely useless.

Let's start off seriously now.

-Introduction
It would be best to give a small introduction about the project before anything else. To start off, you could say if it is already a project that has been going for some time it could be best to name that as well. People will know that the project has been going for some time and will (probably) have some progress.

If it isn't an existing project, sometimes it would be best to start off immediately what kind of project the people are dealing with if it isn't explained in the thread name or the place where it is created. You could say it is a campaign, RPG, or anything like that. If people are uninterested in such projects, they know they won't really have to bother to read further. It happens once in a while that people completely FORGET to say what kind of project it is leaving people in complete confusion of what the creator was talking about.

Some people do it, so it would be best to refer to it as well. There are a lot of people who will start out by boasting a bit about the project like: “this will be a sweet game'? or “it will be the best'? you really can't impress anyone with such. People will just be annoyed by it, and that will be all.

If possible, try to write something as well that will keep the people interested. Like something of the features that you want to point out immediately to make the project special from all others.

-Insert the Story
Like I said before, it happens more than often that people think of a project, but completely forget about the story and what they want to do with it. I even met someone on the forum who said “stories are useless, people don't like stories in a game'? what is completely wrong! A story might be one of the most important factors in the game and something best to be as accurate as possible.

There are indeed amounts of people here who are not fond on projects that are based on existing histories, such as movies, books, anime or other games excluding from the Warcraft Universe. But most of all, remember that this is a Warcraft modding forum, not a fanclub. A project based on Dragonball ' remember that not everyone likes this, people like me ' and Lord of the Rings is something we've seen too often and are mostly only made because of trying to attract the fans. If you want to discuss Dragonball (or something) go to a different forum that is dedicated to it. Just like I am doing.

Try (not necessarily, but try) to have an original story or at least something that is worth of people's time. Seeing a story like this doesn't quickly excite people:
“The story is about a man who died but most go back because the people who killed him are planning of taking over the world. You are the only one who can stop him!'?
Such an old story doesn't excite people anymore and is barely worth their time. It is too old and too cliche now, it is happening in about every fairy tale that exists.

Also, keep it as accurate as possible, many people would like stories that are well detailed. Not always, but mostly. It is not something of primary priority but something that people would appreciate. Even though you need to make it accurate, don't make it longer than it has to be, even though people like the details, there are too many people who don't like reading much. So try to write something that would attract their attention from the very start, it doesn't matter if it is only a fragment of the ending of the story, but make something that will get their interest.
Don't just start something like: “the story is about a young boy with his little sister and a pet bird that is 2 feet high and likes to eat carrots. Together they want to take over the world.'?

-Be specific what you want
If possible, try to be as specific as possible. I know it can be hard to do sometimes, but it should be done. As example, tell them what kind of jobs you are offering the people to help you.

Also try to give an accurate explanation of what kind people you want to help. You could ask for a terrainer, but terrainer's are different from each other. Each has a different style and a different opinion. If you can attract the one who has the most things in common with how you want it, then you will have it perfect.

-Don't start off too big
Yeah, I am talking about starting your first project WAAAY too big. I personally know many people who did it, and even me, the one writing the FAQ made the same mistake as well. If there is a good example, then it is best to pick yourself. Especially if this is your first project, don't go overboard with a project with 50 levels, 20 new models and several 256 x 256 sized maps. Try to start off small and work yourself slowly up to become more respected and show the people that you are able to finish projects. It would also be useful if you would get to know the forum a bit better and let the people know you too. It will be easier to let people join you since they are more familiar with you.
Large projects often fail because they got too many features that are not able to become reality or the leader is not able to keep the team together.

Joining a project may also give the necessary experience to start a project of your own. Some people think starting a project is nothing special, but it is a lot harder than you think. Think twice about starting a project and even then ask yourself “won't it be better if I joined an excising project?'?

Many people make this mistake and start projects that are nearly impossible to them. They want to show they got good ideas, that they of something 'great' but they are forgetting the question, 'can I finish this?' or why no one would join them. If it also one of your first posts on this forum then it might be best to show some work of yourself. Even if you aren't new, sometimes it is just for the best, so people know whom they are dealing with.
Perhaps by showing some of your work and your experience for other projects, then perhaps you can impress a modeler enough to let him join your project.

And as long last, if you have a bad grammar, the excuse “I'm not a native'? is a poor excuse. www.dictionary.com and a real one can offer quite assistance here. If the thread is written too horrible to barely read then there is a high chance that the thread can be closed. Even though I learned to read most kind of posts, not everyone shares the same thought and most likely, many people can't read it. The “I'm not a native'? excuse is called “poor'? by me is because I am not a native either, and I am speaking nearly perfect English out here. If I didn't, I would've harmed my proud :P
Another excuse people tend to use is “my brother is an employee at Blizzard'? or “my father helped making this game'? for all we could care, your last name is Blizzard you just can't impress people by saying this. You will definitely annoy them by doing so, that is for certain. At the far most, you can impress the little kids, but those who got a higher intelligence than a glass of water won't bother with it. You won't impress anyone by saying that you reached a status yourself by saying your occupation ' even if it would be your occupation, it would make little difference.

-Don't just rely on others
It happens too often that people rely too much on their 'helpers' to create the project for them. Anyone could go and come up with some good ideas for a campaign or RPG, but making it is what impresses the people (gee, doesn't this sentence look familiar?). Many people think they are able to create the project successful as long as they got the necessary people. Well big-boy, things don't work that way in real life, perhaps it would work that way in games or in theory, but not in real life, sorry.
In the end, it'll be your project and you will have to take the responsibility to do some work by yourself without the help of your team.

Here for the old (SA-Magic) part again:

Don't go and ask for a terrainer, icon maker, modeler, skinner, triggerer, story maker and ideas man. You see, you are asking for every job available and clearly giving the expression that you aren't planning on doing anything by yourself. This clearly ticks people off.

-Be professional
Now, don't come shouting to me, “I'm not professional, I'm a kid!'? because I am not referring to that and… what? You're a kid? Wow… I never thought that I… um… hide the “stuff'? guys :P

Spell and grammar check your messages to find mistakes in them. No matter how much confidence you have in your writing skills, “even the best makes mistakes'?. I'm probably not giving a good expression, since I'm not using a grammar check eith… eh… that shouldn't be in it, should it?

The less mistakes you make in the thread the more professional it will look to other people and the easier it is for people to understand you ' therefore perhaps making them join. There is no use in saying “English isn't my first language'? since like I said before, that is a poor excuse. There are several people out here on the forum who have a better grammar than the 'natives' out there.

-Don't go and ask for…
Beta testers! You don't need those until you're nearly finished! Or at least, more than 90% done. Voice actors would fall under the same roof there and could only be recruited when it has past the border of 90%. But because of some “impatient'? voice-actors, some may join up before you may actually need them. Welcome them with open arms if you want, or punch them right back out the door ' like I usually do. Yeah, the people like me, they just keep coming back and back for more, and I need to hit and hit… and hit… and hit… and I nearly lose the feeling in my arm of hitting and I… off-topic?

If you ask for beta testers of voice actors during the first stages of your project then you are clearly wasting people's time and efforts. Even though you may say it, there is never a guarantee that your project will be completely finished. You are perhaps also unnecessarily increasing the file size of the project.

People are also often asking for people who will write them a story to base the project on. That is pretty much your own job as the project leader and you really shouldn't ask someone else to do that. To help you with the story and help with the history, it is not OK to ask them to write the entire story. There is a high amount of people ' sadly enough, not as talented as some think ' here that are willing to write a story for you but you should think of something by yourself if you want it as best as possible. Not everyone has the same taste in stories as you do. Some prefer a story with a lot of fighting and some prefer romancer ' strangely enough, all my stories seem to end up in drama :P

NO ADVERTISING
One of the iron rules of the wc3c forum is that it is very forbidden to advertise.
Rules about advertising:
Quote:
1. If you start a thread ONLY for advertising a site, that thread will be deleted with no warning, and you will be warned not to do it again @ PM.
2. If you see your advertising thread deleted, start another one, then you will be imediatly reported to a super mod/admin.
3. If you want to tell someone a site that could host A guy's MOD/Campaign, tell him to PM you for info, DO NOT post the link in his thread!
- Remember WC3C can host you, and it is the best warcraft 3 site in the comunity AFTERALL!
4. Remember, ANY form of advertising, telling sites names in threads, making threads for advertising is strictly forbiden, and from now on will be edited out, and you will recieve a warning.

Please, do not use this forum to advertise, perhaps PM some admins for info about geting hosted at wc3c.
It would be best NOT to bump your thread if it doesn't get any attention. I am well known for posting in nearly every thread out here in the forum, though it happens once in a while that I don't. If that happens and no one posts in it as well you are permitted and NOT encouraged to bump it ONCE. If you do it multiple times, I will personally, as one of the most active members and moderators, close the thread.

After you bumped it and it still doesn't get any attention, well, tough luck, that's all I can say. Try to convince me to add it in the Projects in Development thread or contact me in any other way to post in it to keep it alive, but even then I can't guarentee anything.

-Frequently asked Questions
Well, you guessed it, even though I don't know if this has to be added as well, I might as well do it while I'm at it. If it is isn't supposed to be, then I'll edit it out. If you read this, it is probably accepted :P

---You mentioned “new rules'? at the top, where does this refer to?'?
Around the date of 12 January 2005, Dorelian decided on new rules for the Team Gathering forum because it became quite… chaotic. (You know who the one caused it is… wait, don't look at me) Because of that, we decided to put on some stricter rules that the members will have to keep them on. If they don't the thread can be instantly closed or deleted.

They may seem familiar because they have been explained throughout the thread before but hopefully *holds hands* unnoticeable.
-Use understandable English
-Don't tell people to go somewhere else, or PM you.
-Post in the right forum (but then again, that is the same for all) even though some of them will be overlooked, if it happens frequently, it will result in the deletion of the thread.

---You mentioned that it was a disaster that you had to write the FAQ. Why?
Why you ask? Okay, it is clear that you don't know me. Keep it that way. I am, or was quite known among the forum as a moderator that liked to eh… fall off-topic. Because of that reason (and being the only moderator who went that far) I became known across several parts of the forum. Usually I am using myself as example too therefore adding me into this.

---You also mentioned Dorelian…
Dorelian is usually referred (by me) as 'my superior' ;) since he knows the things still better than me and is the one who mostly controls this area.

---Last time I came here I saw multiple interesting projects hosted, what happened with them?
If they aren't here anymore it is possible that they are either finished or that they have been removed. If they are removed, than you will probably find them either on a different site or they died.

---I want to get my project hosted, what do I have to do?
If we are speaking about campaigns and RPG's here (not custom games) then the answer is somewhat simple.
The quality has to be superb, by request a good story and mostly the interest of many different members. Not necessarily a very talented team, as long as they have a high progress rate it doesn't matter.

---Hosting? What is it up for me?
http://www.wc3campaigns.com/hosting.php

---No one wants to join, what should I do?
There is not much what you can do there. Try and find out what they don't like about the project and try to improve that. If it is a standard unoriginal AoS then you already understand what is the big point. If it is a campaign or RPG, perhaps the story or features are not very attractive. Be creative.
You could also try to ask people from the Freelancer forum.

---People don't like my story, but I tried my best and don't know how to improve it.
There is a forum here, dedicated to stories - half dead and only a small number of members posting - and I am sure they are willing to help you with any problem you may have with the story. You can find them here :)

---People just don't stay on-topic (gee, sounds familiar) in my thread and I want them to work seriously, what should I do? (Assume that I have nothing to do with this :P)
Contact the local moderator or someone who has a lot of influence in this part of the forum, I am sure you know who I am talking about. Because I must assume that this thread will be read when I'm no longer here, I cannot refer to people. As long as I'm here, you could always contact me at your own responsibility ^^

---All projects that sound good are more than 20 pages and I don't want to read through them. What should I do?
Check the thread of mine, "Projects in Development" it'll show what projects are available and the projects that are making the most progress.

---"Projects in Development?" why did you create that?
Because many people are not willing to read every project thread, so I cut everything short (though people will prove me wrong there :P) and try to give as much information I can.

---I have a great project! I got all the help I need, how do I get selected for your thread?
Simple, contact me with the information you want to share with the community, the releases you've made, any particular information and naturally, the most important, the progress you've made over the last amount of time. If it isn't enough progress, I won't add it.

---I made huge amounts of progress over the last time, I contacted you, but I didn't get an answer/wasn't selected.
If you contacted me and you didn't get an answer, that is probably because I was absent at that moment and will try and answer it as soon as possible. If that isn't the case, I probably gave an answer through PM's and why you were not selected. Mostly it is because: Too little progress or other projects have more progress.

---It is clear and certain that I will be selected, when are you going to hold an interview?
Whenever the other party is feeling up to it, when I have some time, when it is certain you will be chosen and if the other party agrees to do it. Sometimes if you won't be chosen, I'll contact you about it as well, to add as a little extra - look forward to it.

---How are you going to hold an interview?
Depends on several cases. If I happen to know the person through a chatting program, MSN as an example, then I will do it through that. If not, then it'll probably be throughout PM.

---You mentioned often you have very little time, how in the world are you going to update the 'Projects in Development' thread and those "interviews"?
I'll make some time. I usually got an hour of free time a day. I'll use that for it.

---You write stories, can I hire you for my project?
Naturally, of course. I am just an other member of this forum, regardless of being a moderator. I just don't do terrain anymore.

---Regarding hosting, does it has a little section of its own?
Yes, I mentioned it before in the FAQ, but a little extra can be found here:
Quote:
Your project must be at least 50% completed in order to qualify for hosting. If we think you are too ambitious, we might ask you to reapply later.
We will not accept overly ambitious applicants. Keep your goals reachable. We will deny applications that aim too high.
Be original. No World of Warcraft or any other campaigns based on another game will be accepted. They're not original and you won't be able to replicate that game's feeling.
Have the essential planned. You must have a small team in order to qualify. Solo projects have less chances of being hosted. You must also have a name and a story that must not change. If you get refused the first time and reapply with a changed name or story, your chances will drop considerably. We also judge you on your team members, name and story. If these contain multiple spelling or grammar errors, you will probably be rejected.
Have high quality work to show us. Please include screenshots in your applications. Even entire maps, if possible. Keep your models and skins few but good. We prefer quality over quantity.
Having experienced and well known team members also helps your chances. Try to be as organized and as professional as possible.
Do not try to influent your application's outcome. Do not contact the administration through private means unless asked to do so. Doing this might result in the termination of your application.
Send the correct information. You MUST answer EVERYTHING listed here: http://www.wc3campaigns.com/hosting.php. Not answering everything will result in an instant refusal. Quote the requirement and answer it.
Deal with refusals. Don't reapply with new projects if you were rejected with another. You will be rejected and / or ignored. Improve the rejected project and reapply later instead. We usually tell you what's wrong.
If you were hosted and at some point dropped, we will NOT host you again unless your project is at least 90% finished. Even then, we will ask you to send everything you have for evaluation.
Do not insult the hosting director if you are rejected. That is unprofessional and will only make your situation worse, risking your future applications. Take it like a man and reapply when the observation(s) made in the refusal have been addressed.

Thanks for the time
-Fladian

Update: 22 - 05 - 05, bolded several parts on request of JohnFN.
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Last edited by Fladian : 05-22-2005 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:21 PM   #2
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nice flad!
Good work, even I found grammar errors on ur text ;)
 
Old 01-13-2005, 04:33 PM   #3
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Hey, I'm not a grammar nazi and I'm not perfect. I am bound to make mistakes :P

Glad someone likes it thought. Shouldn't really be posted too much in it, regardless being it my thread :P I just don't feel like closing the thread already :P
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:24 PM   #4
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*Phew* :\

Read it all and I must say I'm quite tired. ;)

But this was just what this section needed. Too many project threads that were never lifted off the ground because the introduction text was about as long as this post of mine.

We're glad to have Flad ;)
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:36 PM   #5
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What? It's too long again? Agh, and I tried to keep it short, but like I said somewhere at the start, "asking me to write a FAQ is a disaster"...
I'll try to edit it a bit now and then to make it easier to read somehow... perhaps by adding some stuff to it that can keep the people's attention. Then again, that was my intention all along, but it didn't work out well enough.

The new section will get a FAQ of his own what I have yet to read, but people must understand that I don't got all the time of the world. I'll try to finish it before the day after tomorrow though.

Anyway, this is (sort of) a new way of writing the FAQ of how SA-Magic did a long time ago. Heck, I was called Dark Dragon back then :P

Nachtu, if there's anyone you want to thank, thank Dorelian, not me. He forced me to write it above anything else ;) But Satanas and I already came to the conclusion that we had to write a new one sooner or later. Apparently I became the one writing it.

But like I said, I'll try and update it now and then, so check it up once in a while ;) If you can find a subject that I forgot to explain about, notify me either throughout the thread but rather throughout PM's.
Thank you.
-Fladian
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:04 PM   #6
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Nice job.

I got a question though.

Did you ever consider a "Started Projects" subforum? With 1 thread/active campaign for example, where the creator of the Thread has to edit the post every two weeks or so, to prove he didnt lose his own interest. Elsewise the thread gets deleted. He could post his progress, link to his private forum, and list of people he's looking for there.

I think this is what this place lacks: a list of active, non-hosted campaigns. For now, most people seem to move to a private forum, once they started a campaign for real, because they cant have a forum here (with reason, you cant host everything..). Their recruiting thread falls down the list, while 10 new projects are posted that never get off the ground, and it becomes hard to find really active ones..

Maybe this place could act as some sort of "non-hosted project central".

I didnt think of the disadvantages yet. I'm just thinking aloud..
 
Old 01-13-2005, 09:22 PM   #7
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I was wondering when you'd show up ;)

Anyway, the FAQ is made for questions, and I will (like usual) try to answer it as best as I can.

I have not been a moderator for what you call a "long time" as some other people here, but I am quite familiar with most things. In general, the people who kept the peace here, was the former active member, Satanas (or Santa how many people called him), Dorelian and myself - the spamming moderator.
While most of the things has been discussed, there has indeed never been discussed about a "started project forum" and the "finished-project/maps" can be found in the General Development. It is a good idea, but it has a large amount of flaws, just to name a few:
1. I am not very strict regarding rules, other people are. If there is only a little bit of time too late, then there is a chance it will be removed already. That's a chance people don't dare to take.
2. Creating a thread there, or creating a thread in the normal gather forum, it doesn't make much of a difference it remains the same thread.
3. Even though it may look like that, I am not always here and the same counts for Dorelian. We are not able to keep moving threads there or something similar.
4. As you are aware of yourself WW. there are not too many succesful projects in general that is mostly because of a lack of interest, lack of skill or a lack of determination with a little push to the last option. The intelligence all around isn't high and a LOT of people will gather a team and instantly move towards the "started project" forum making it overly crowded.
To come to a conclusion, it would probably be best to let them discuss in the normal gathering forum. I will ask the opinion of Dorelian regarding this though, maybe he will find more positive ways and less negative. After all, he is the one that makes the sub forums here ;)

You might find the 'General Development - Maps in progress' an interesting section then perhaps WW. I still don't understand why that sub forum isn't part of the Team Gathering forum though...
...I don't think people will appreciate my actions there either ;)
-Fladian
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:27 PM   #8
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heh, good job Flad.
(now everyone will know that you're a mod for sure )
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:56 PM   #9
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He a mod? I thought he just had too much authority :god_help_us: , still a little long yes.
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:16 AM   #10
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Not necessarily, Reaper. Members can also create FAQ's and if they are good and accurate, then they will be stickied by the local moderator of administrator.

Am. I became a moderator quite recently, before that I reacted as a moderator, but that was pretty much all.

Long? I tried to keep it short. I really did...
-Fladian
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:07 AM   #11
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uhmm... well nice job. but too long. heh. i've only read the first paragraph. heh. jke. :D
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Old 01-14-2005, 12:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fladian
Not necessarily, Reaper. Members can also create FAQ's and if they are good and accurate, then they will be stickied by the local moderator of administrator.
yeah, but still

hmmm, well if people NEED this FAQ they will read it no matter how long it is.
(oh and by the way, when i first saw that title i thought it was Fag not Faq)
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:11 PM   #13
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Reaper, I will have to force people to read the FAQ, so I tried to keep it as 'interesting' as possible, but also therefore I will update it from time to time.

Draco probably made it that a thread cannot exists out of capital letters only because I wrote it in capitals but it came out like this. Excuse me.
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fladian
Reaper, I will have to force people to read the FAQ, so I tried to keep it as 'interesting' as possible, but also therefore I will update it from time to time.

Draco probably made it that a thread cannot exists out of capital letters only because I wrote it in capitals but it came out like this. Excuse me.
heh ok ^_^
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:07 PM   #15
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great faq, and also a bit humor in it :)
only thing left to do is hoping that people will actually read the faq before posting a tread.
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