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Old 07-06-2011, 02:50 PM   #1
WarcraftPlayer101
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Hello. As a first few words, I'd like to note that this is my first Custom Race Map in a long time. I used to make custom races before just for fun and eyecandy, but now, I feel like I want to make it so that others can enjoy it as well. So, I joined this site in hopes of getting some creative responses to my map-making, and how I can improve myself. Take in note, though, I will not be happy with critiques such as;

"U should lower (insert unit/hero's name) HP"

And then leave it at that. That won't do. Instead, try and tell me how MUCH I should lower it with. I know it's a little too much to demand, but I really want to try and become better on my race making.

Also, none of the models, textures, icons and effects I use are mine. All the models, textures, icons and effects belong to their respective creators. The map is also not mine. It is a 2-player Melee Map I downloaded from The Hive Workshop.

So, without further ado, I hope you will enjoy this map!

NOTE: The Trolls race is STILL IN DEVELOPMENT. In case you wonder.

For some reason, the Attachment Manager didn't work for me, so I uploaded a .zip file containing the map here; http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NZL8YZS9
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:57 PM   #2
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Hello there.

I just tested your map. I played as the High Elves against a Human AI opponent, and while I'm not as impressed as I could be, the map wasn't totally awful either.
  • The High Elven town hall building did not count as a hall, thus the game consider you "hall-less", revealing you to your opponent.
  • The first hero cost resources, unlike they do for the four standard races, putting you at a great disadvantage.
  • Your techtree reminded me too much of the standard ones. For example the abilities: The Mage Huntress had critical strike, evasion, feedback and charm (all blizzard abilities with new names and icons). Another example would be the lumber depository upgrades that were carbon copies of the Human ones. This made the High Elves uninteresting and to some extent, boring.
  • About the Mage Huntress' abilities, she only had one active one (and 3 passive ones), which was her ultimate, locked until level six, making her mana useless and "playing with her" extremely boring.
  • The High Elven techtree only featured three heroes, compared to the standard techtrees that feature four.
  • I was able to train two heroes at tier one.
  • I noticed several green BTNs and DISBTNs had made it into your map, this is easily solved by fixing the paths of your imports.
  • You must give credits to the authors of the resources that you're using. I suggest a quest in the quest log for this purpose.

That's all I can think of after a quick play-through.

Last edited by Linaze : 07-06-2011 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:05 AM   #3
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1. Yeah, I will see if I can fix that somehow, I've had numerous problems with that before. Any tip on how I could fix it?
2. Like the past one, and idea on how I could fix this?
3 & 4. Yeah, I'm not really good at making custom-made abilities with codes and triggers and stuff, so I tend to use the original abilities as a base. Sorry 'bout that. I shall see if I can make some changes to the High Elven Tree Depository upgrades. As for the Mage Huntress' abilities, I'll see to it she'll get more active abilities!
5. It's a work-in-progress, as well. Should of mentioned it in my first post, as I am still trying to make a fourth hero for them.
6. Oh, really? I was sure I had fixed the Ranger Mistress' Tier problem. I shall double-check to see in-case I haven't. Otherwise, I could really use some help with that, too, since I based her off a Campain Hero; Sylvanas.
7. Don't worry about the icons, I have fixed them now, should work properly.
8. Alright then, that is under way too!

Thank you so much for your constructive criticism. I shall see to it that I'll maybe get some help with these issues(even though I am not the brightest guy on fixing codes and triggers and stuff like that, cuz I'm a lazy-ass. x3). But I will hopefully fix most of it.

EDIT: By the way, anything you'd like to add that was positive? Just curious.

EDIT 2:
Fixed the Mage Huntress' abilities(still based on original ones, plz don't be mad at me. ^^| ) She now has Fan of Knives, and Mana Combustion(Mana Burn)
Fixed the error with the Ranger Mistress' Tier Level
Fixed Credits for the resources in an Optional Quest

Last edited by WarcraftPlayer101 : 07-07-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarcraftPlayer101
1. Yeah, I will see if I can fix that somehow, I've had numerous problems with that before. Any tip on how I could fix it?
2. Like the past one, and idea on how I could fix this?

1. (In the editor) Advanced -> Game Constants: Add the hall and its upgrades to "Techtree - Depencency equivalents - Hall Tier 1,2 and 3" (Now, this variable's name may be different, as I don't have the english version of the game, but I guess you'll find it anyway, as the other halls are all set in there)

2. Be sure your heroes are set (in the same window as before) in "Techtree - Dependency equivalents - Hero". IIRC the game uses those to see which units are heroes and grant the player a free hero.

4. Remember that there are some unwritten rules about race creation that ought to be respected if you want your race to be well balanced against the standard ones. One of those is that the passive skills of the racial hero group should never be more than 4 in total (3 looks preferable) and a hero shouldn't have more than 2 passives. (the Tauren Chieftain is the only Blizzard melee hero with 2 passives)

As for race designing/creation in general, I think you'll find this tutorial interesting: Design Guide for a Fifth Race

For some complete custom races you could use for comparison, I'd advise you to look at Creep Rebellion or at my (not really finished yet) Blood Elves. (Yes, this is yet another shameless plug)

I hope those can help you in creating a really good High Elf race... and no, I haven't seen your map yet, as I'm really busy with RL stuff.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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I'm really not too keen on making Shops, since it's so much work to be done with the items. Same with Defenders. But, I guess to make this better, I will do so in some time. Thank you for your help. ^_^

EDIT: Also, I have set my hall tiers and the heroes in the Techtree - Dependency equivalents, but the error still occurs to me.

Last edited by WarcraftPlayer101 : 07-07-2011 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:12 PM   #6
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I think it goes without saying that for any true High Elven custom race, a custom "Ranger" hero is required. Moreoever, naming her "Waywatcher" is just about the best idea evar. :P

You could probably get away with using the campaign Ranger skillset (Scout, Trueshot Aura, Cold Arrows, Starfall), but I would also highly suggest tinkering around with the Object Editor and learning how to use it. Their's a boat-load of spells/abilities/things you can do, that don't even require triggers (or minimal ones). Look for a good Arrow ability. Maybe change the art on Starfall to be a "Sunfall". Meh, lame changes, but it's a start.

Other than that, can't say for now; still can't test the map w/o Wc3. :P Good luck, though!
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:20 PM   #7
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I do have a Ranger hero, named the Ranger Mistress. :P But I could change it to Waywatcher, I guess. XD
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarcraftPlayer101
EDIT: Also, I have set my hall tiers and the heroes in the Techtree - Dependency equivalents, but the error still occurs to me.
Ah, yes, now I remember how that worked... it's caused by
Trigger:
Melee Game - Enforce victory/defeat conditions (for all players)
(it's inside the map initialization trigger)

You can solve the problem by either deleting that Action in the triggers and create a trigger like this (feel free to copy it as is) or deleting the map initialization section altogether and using the Custom Race System instead. (Requires JNGP, but I guess if you don't know vJass you'll use the former method anyway... that's a pity though, the CRS is perfect when it comes to make custom races' maps)

And about the first hero cost thing? Is that problem solved?
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Last edited by Michael Peppers : 07-09-2011 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:31 AM   #9
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Thanks, I'll apply that Trigger as soon as I can. And no, the Hero cost thing is still not solved.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarcraftPlayer101
Thanks, I'll apply that Trigger as soon as I can. And no, the Hero cost thing is still not solved.
Uhm... since I stopped making custom triggers for race creation I forgot a lot of those workarounds... anyway, I found it. In the trigger you're using for creating the High Elf units for the player you have to add an action like this:
Trigger:
Player - Set <player>'s Free heroes available to 1
(It's inside "Player - Set Property")
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:40 PM   #11
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I want to say, as an update, that the Triggers have now been set in place! And thanks to the help of Linaze via Skype, as he helped me with making the Triggers right. Now, I shall see to it that I finish my races. :3

EDIT 2: Yeah, sorry for all the edits in this post, but now I will announce that the High Elven Race is fully COMPLETED. Yes, you heard right. Completed. Fully worked out, tweaked and fixed to hopefully satisfy your playing needs. =D The full High Elven Race update is now here; http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TJTNAY1H

I will now focus my full attention on bringing the Trolls into full playability.

Last edited by WarcraftPlayer101 : 07-14-2011 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:33 PM   #12
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Umm. That map is about 13MB. It can't be played on Battle.net, or even on Garena.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:12 PM   #13
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Yeah. Any multiplayer map needs to below 8MB to be playable (this applies to both BNet, Garena and LAN). You'll simply have to cut down on the imports.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:41 AM   #14
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well then i guess it's for single player.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:25 AM   #15
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Blast it. And I have such a short memory... I don't remember which ones I need to use and which I won't need. ^^;

Sorry for the disappointment guys... but like Arbiter said, it's still fully capable to play in Single Player mode, if that is of any comfort...

Once again, terribly sorry. But I have like, an über-short memory sometimes... V.V *feels ashamed*
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