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Old 03-10-2009, 02:24 AM   #16
Neversleeping
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Melee, as in hero to hero combat you mean? Well, as mentioned Battledown is not focused around just heroes. It's also against loads of units and buildings and whatnot.
Some heroes are good one on one (e.g Mountain King) while others are good against unit masses and buildings (e.g Elementalist). If everyone is the same, what's the point?

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Old 03-10-2009, 09:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
Depends on the expectations. For example if you're just after custom heroes this is not a map for you. I've kept as much original warcraft3 elements as possible (but didn't get out of my way for it). It's the depth of strategy in this game, and the endless ways to attack your opponent (epic items, fliers, siege weapons?), timing when to join the computer controlled forces and attack (it's not the same spawn paths all the time, so you gotta pay attention to certain big assaults etc), when to defend.. It's the strategy and the fun of big battles that drives this map :)

Let me also add. It's NOT made to be simple and first-time 100% playable (and regrettably therefore probably not for the mainstream). It's made for depth. That's why I'd hope you try it a few times; feedback I've gotten is that the map get better as they get to know it. And some say its more fun than Dota. So It's gotta have SOMETHING ;)


You can get it here.
http://epicwar.com/maps/87681/


Ive never liked DotA

i am happy that youve kept WCIII things, I really like WCIII heroes and racial units

expectations, meaning they usually end up being crappy

Ill try it out, I cant host, but ill see what my neighbors are up to and we can LAN it up

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Old 03-10-2009, 10:04 AM   #18
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I used to be a melee person, but that was like 6 years ago.

The town layouts, and the whole map in general, was pretty good, allowing for plenty of strategy and such.

And as I said, I'll get to some proper testing with a full house in the future.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:57 AM   #19
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Im very happy I tried this, it was incredible, in fact, I would go so far as to say it would meet submission expectations in its current state


the game avoided being stupid, i enjoyed it immensely

I bought a big Mercenary army and stood in the middle while the Alliance did the dirty work

i REALLY like the "oneshot heroes", that was a great idea, add more of them!

really, all i can suggest is more, no problems with anything, more mercenaries, more oneshot heroes, and an Ivory Tower....

There were some typos in the lore messages, some words missing, some plurals in the wrong places, nothing bad

Your writing was also refreshingly good, I actually enjoyed reading your stories

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Old 03-10-2009, 11:11 AM   #20
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Wow, thanks.. It's really cool to hear that I have some equal-minded people there that kinda gets what I'm aiming at! :) Also relieved to hear that someone can enjoy a more serious map after all the high-trend "popcorn" maps being written over the past years. Hehe.


Yeah, I see I have some terrible typos that I promise to fix up. Thanks for pointing it out.
Also, did my pop-up hints explain stuff sufficiently, or should I add some more?

Quote:
more mercenaries, more oneshot heroes, and an Ivory Tower...
-As for the mercenaries, do you mean neutral mercenaries, or units of your faction you can buy? Or both?
-Yeah, I can add more one-shot heroes. I've think they're fun too! (but when playing against opponents I always got my hands too full to use em).
-What was an Ivory Tower again? <blush>

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Old 03-10-2009, 07:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
Wow, thanks.. It's really cool to hear that I have some equal-minded people there that kinda gets what I'm aiming at! :) Also relieved to hear that someone can enjoy a more serious map after all the high-trend "popcorn" maps being written over the past years. Hehe.


Yeah, I see I have some terrible typos that I promise to fix up. Thanks for pointing it out.
Also, did my pop-up hints explain stuff sufficiently, or should I add some more?


-As for the mercenaries, do you mean neutral mercenaries, or units of your faction you can buy? Or both?
-Yeah, I can add more one-shot heroes. I've think they're fun too! (but when playing against opponents I always got my hands too full to use em).
-What was an Ivory Tower again? <blush>

I understood exactly what i was supposed to do after reading the information

More neutral ones, as I see there are really no more Alliance units to add in, and because i love mercenaries, lots of variation...

Ivory Towers are an item Humans can buy from the racial shop that creates a guard tower. I only want these so a little can be done to try and save a dying outpost...

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Old 03-10-2009, 10:09 PM   #22
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Ah yes, the mini-pocket buildings. Actually I DID think about adding these. I had two beefs with it, however. First it kindof takes away a basic idea that this battle happens over a short period of time and that there's really no time to construct new buildings, while it in the first place seems a little odd to walk around with a tower in your pocket, hehe. It may in some cases be susceptible to abuse.
But most importantly: building new buildings adds to the game time. A standard game of Battledawn is now about half an hour to an hour (although I've seen both 15 minutes and 3 hours), and I think I shouldn't be longer than that.

About neutral mercs. Love these as well! However there are a lot of different units to buy. You have the laboratories in the north-east and south-west corners with funny units (like the siege-damage Shredder and the tower killing goblin sapper squad!). You have the Grove of Tranquillity on the left (where you can get Treants and Chimeras), and boh faction also have their dragon roost. This is addition to the merc camps around. There are a few extra special units as well that can be found under special conditions.

I can however add a few more cool beasts to the merc camps if they've got room.

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Old 03-11-2009, 10:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
Ah yes, the mini-pocket buildings. Actually I DID think about adding these. I had two beefs with it, however. First it kindof takes away a basic idea that this battle happens over a short period of time and that there's really no time to construct new buildings, while it in the first place seems a little odd to walk around with a tower in your pocket, hehe. It may in some cases be susceptible to abuse.
But most importantly: building new buildings adds to the game time. A standard game of Battledawn is now about half an hour to an hour (although I've seen both 15 minutes and 3 hours), and I think I shouldn't be longer than that.

About neutral mercs. Love these as well! However there are a lot of different units to buy. You have the laboratories in the north-east and south-west corners with funny units (like the siege-damage Shredder and the tower killing goblin sapper squad!). You have the Grove of Tranquillity on the left (where you can get Treants and Chimeras), and boh faction also have their dragon roost. This is addition to the merc camps around. There are a few extra special units as well that can be found under special conditions.

I can however add a few more cool beasts to the merc camps if they've got room.

I only saw the merc camps, i didnt even bother to go to the Goblin Labs , i thought they were melee labs

Im pretty stoked about the Grove of Tranquility... we'll have to get an online test, I cant host, otherwise id do it...
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:28 PM   #24
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The grove is a semi-secret place. What's fun is that everyones inside is invulerable. So it's actually a sanctuary I've escaped to many times with persuers on my heels. While inside, you can simply stand and watch the enemies in the white of their eyes ;)
Note though, that both factions have an outcast; The "Demon-Hunter" and the "Dreadlord" are not welcome in the grove and will be driven away. Exactly opposite, the WInd Ranger and the Beastmaster should always spare a visit there...

Yeah, the Goblin Labs have a few new features. For instance you may buy an assembled Battle Golem there, improved Zeppelins, Shredders (they've got siege damage here to give them a unique purpose) Mechanical Critters, that opponents will not attack (smart to seize unprotected control points with!).

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Old 03-11-2009, 11:24 PM   #25
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So after trying twice with a friend, and getting disconnected each time right after the first text talking about "storm" disappeared, I decided to test it by myself in singleplayer. Here's what I thought:
  • Spells? They're not unique which is totally fine as I have read, but some need icon placement fixing (eg. Windranger "windwalk"... it is learnt 3rd from the left but then appears to be the 1st on the left in the normal interface)
  • A few typos here and there, such as in the Ultimate Legendary Item (bevare)
  • What exactly do scout towers do? Looks pretty useless except tank damage
  • Is there somehow to get the Hearth's abandoned watch tower's working again? that would be pretty cool
  • What's with skills that go over level 3 but doesn't display the info about that level (when learning the skills)?
  • After getting fel collar from the succubus' and using it, it instantly turned to neutral hostile and attacked me.... whats up with that
  • Overall great, too bad I couldn't test it multiplayer yet, as it seems it would be a lot more fun if it is a fh
Oh and I would like to mention that imo the top part of the map seems very boring compared to all the stuff on the bottom of the map :P Great game though! Enjoyed playing!
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:13 AM   #26
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Thanks, well done playtesting job. This will help me improve my product!
I was a little alarmed by the drop-out, though. I hope this ain't somehow a persistent error. It has worked for us every time, but..

Quote:
need icon placement fixing (eg. Windranger "windwalk"... it is learnt 3rd from the left but then appears to be the 1st on the left in the normal interface
Yeah, that's right. Many of the spells have no designated spot, so will just be added left from right. This is no real problem per se, but I agree it's hitting the fix list.

Quote:
A few typos here and there, such as in the Ultimate Legendary Item (bevare).
I've starting cleaning out some of the typos. Hope I'll find them all. Or feel free to specify exactly where and when. Or suggest better wordings.

Quote:
What exactly do scout towers do? Looks pretty useless except tank damage
Scout towers, well, they scout ;) They see enemy units and tank damage. They're not needed, but the Alliance has a few of them in the far front anyway, mostly cosmetical.

Quote:
Is there somehow to get the Hearth's abandoned watch tower's working again? that would be pretty cool
I've been thinking about this, but currently those towers is just part of the scenery. The best suggestion I've come up with so far is that they get attack capability if your teams controls the Overlook for, say, 5 minutes.

Quote:
What's with skills that go over level 3 but doesn't display the info about that level (when learning the skills)?
This is a techical problem. I've made all skills purely on GUI, and they yield no room to add text for the fouth level. A suggestion on how to fix this is appreciated.

Quote:
After getting fel collar from the succubus' and using it, it instantly turned to neutral hostile and attacked me.... whats up with that
I'll look into it. I can only guess it's loyal to the succubus :P

Quote:
Overall great, too bad I couldn't test it multiplayer yet, as it seems it would be a lot more fun if it is a fh
if it is a fh? What's a FH? Yeah, an opponent makes it ten times as interesting. hehe.

Quote:
Oh and I would like to mention that imo the top part of the map seems very boring compared to all the stuff on the bottom of the map :P
Hmm.. interesting. it should be roughly the same amount of creeps and treasures on either side of equator. Or do you simply mean the terrain? In that case I actually like the north terrain better. Each has a slightly different feel, though.


Again, thanks for your help.

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Old 03-12-2009, 03:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
I was a little alarmed by the drop-out, though. I hope this ain't somehow a persistent error. It has worked for us every time, but..
I'll try again, but if it for some reason matters during those 2 tests I loaded faster than my friend, and he always lagged for about 2 seconds right before those game messages showed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
This is a techical problem. I've made all skills purely on GUI, and they yield no room to add text for the fouth level. A suggestion on how to fix this is appreciated.
I really don't get what you mean (or maybe you don't get what I mean). What I was trying to say was that when you are trying to learn a skill (eg. Windranger "Cold Arrows"), the max level you can level it up to is level 4, but the description only goes up to level 3. You can easily change it in the object editor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
if it is a fh? What's a FH? Yeah, an opponent makes it ten times as interesting. hehe.
FH = Fullhouse (when all slots are full). Which usually means the game is more action packed since players can think fast and have different play styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
Hmm.. interesting. it should be roughly the same amount of creeps and treasures on either side of equator. Or do you simply mean the terrain? In that case I actually like the north terrain better. Each has a slightly different feel, though.
What I meant was since the grove, succubus', etc. is on the south side of the map, it seemed kinda like the horde had an advantage as they could go there asap if they knew it existed and hire the mercenaries/get the treasures quicker.

On an additional note, ships are also basically for cosmetic too, right? Thanks for your response!
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:31 AM   #28
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@skills; Yes, I understood what you meant. What I was saying is that the actual text-box isn't large enough to fit in the 4th level description. So it seems I can't do it by the GUI.

FH, of course. Yes It's 6+ players it's really taking off! But 1 on 1 is also pretty cool. I play it all the time with a friend mine, but somehow he always wins, no matter which race.

There are merc camps in the north too (but I always use units from my own faction bought at your buildings, if I'm not in dire need). Even though the Grove is further to the south, this could mean a safe staging point for the alliance closer to the target. It could be an advantage the other way around as well.

Ships are mainly cosmetic, yes. But the ships over the eastern alliance keep and the horde ships in the south east may help out just a little with on-shore bombardment or torment flying units trying to attack from a weak spot.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversleeping
@skills; Yes, I understood what you meant. What I was saying is that the actual text-box isn't large enough to fit in the 4th level description. So it seems I can't do it by the GUI.


GUI is only the trigger editor (the adapted script used by the trigger editor), the rest of the WE is just the WE (OE, IM, Layer, etc;)

The code to add a new line is Line1|nLine2

Last edited by holyadvocate : 03-12-2009 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyadvocate
GUI is only the trigger editor (the adapted script used by the trigger editor), the rest of the WE is just the WE (OE, IM, Layer, etc;)

The code to add a new line is Line1|nLine2

GUI just means "Graphical User Interface" ...
but in wc3-mapmaking circles is only used to refer to the graphical user interface to generate trigger code ...
But basically the world editor as complete thing is a GUI...

i luv being nitpicking !
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