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Old 03-29-2010, 08:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
If you checked the examples, how can you still say that this system is bad? It's fast, efficient and has a lot of new functionality.
It even provides new features that makes life easier.

Bring forth a cogent point, instead of saying something equivalent to "is not!" and you may change my, and other people's minds. Repeating a set of statements without making an argument for their correctness when you are challenged is a way to be ridiculed, not a way to change people's minds.

The fact that so many points have been brought forth against this, and you have failed to make even a half decent argument in it's favour, or in rebuttal of any of the points in specific, is truly depressing.

Next time you post in this thread, I expect a carefully worded, grammatically correct rebuttal of at least some of the points brought against this system in specific, and the concept in general. Logical fallacies are not acceptable. (This includes ignoratio elenchi, proof by assertion, and all their friends. For reference, the post you just made is a very basic proof by assertion fallacy.)

Fail to post at all, and it is presumed you admit your incapability to form a coherent argument. You would, however show wisdom by knowing your incapability and accepting it.

Fail to post without committing a basic logical fallacy, and you admit incapability to form a coherent argument, as well as the stupidity to not know your own inadequacies. You also openly invite ridicule.

Post about this post instead of doing what it requests, and I will point out how such an action is a red herring. If you dislike the way this is worded or find it otherwise insulting, speak to a moderator.

Post a well worded, logical argument that forms a coherent thought, and I will reconsider my position on the issue of filter systems in general, and this one in specific.

If this were some few hundred years ago, this would be the point at which I slap you with a glove, for the challenge has been made.
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:54 PM   #17
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That post separates noobs from pros. Pro-stylez. +Rep.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:47 AM   #18
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Bring forth a cogent point, instead of saying something equivalent to "is not!" and you may change my, and other people's minds. Repeating a set of statements without making an argument for their correctness when you are challenged is a way to be ridiculed, not a way to change people's minds.
CustomFilter is useful because it is able to connect PlayerEnumeration with UnitEnumeration.

It is aswell useful because it is really fast and provides new enumeration functions like EnumUnitsInRangeOfLine.

Quote:
The fact that so many points have been brought forth against this, and you have failed to make even a half decent argument in it's favour, or in rebuttal of any of the points in specific, is truly depressing.
Just because something has many cons doesn't mean it's useless or bad at all, it just proves people might not understand the pros of it.

Quote:
Next time you post in this thread, I expect a carefully worded, grammatically correct rebuttal of at least some of the points brought against this system in specific, and the concept in general. Logical fallacies are not acceptable. (This includes ignoratio elenchi, proof by assertion, and all their friends. For reference, the post you just made is a very basic proof by assertion fallacy.)
You might be better in English as I am but that shouldn't matter at all, since you are American (or I guess so) and I am not having English as my mother language. I don't really care how great my English is as long as people can understand me.

Quote:
Fail to post at all, and it is presumed you admit your incapability to form a coherent argument. You would, however show wisdom by knowing your incapability and accepting it.
Just because I do not post something against your points doesn't mean I have nothing against them, sometimes it's just easier to not discuss at all when you see the others do not want to discuss, just to say what they think.
There are enough discussions which are not really discussions, but more a kind of opinion change and that was it. For example the politics. 90% of their discussions are worthless because there will be no result at all.

Quote:
Fail to post without committing a basic logical fallacy, and you admit incapability to form a coherent argument, as well as the stupidity to not know your own inadequacies. You also openly invite ridicule.
If you think flaming will open the gate of intelligence, you are welcome to do such, but please note that I don't care about people that do not know how to probably talk in a respectful manner to each other.

Quote:
Post about this post instead of doing what it requests, and I will point out how such an action is a red herring. If you dislike the way this is worded or find it otherwise insulting, speak to a moderator.
I dislike it but since you are more famous as I am there is no way anybody would accept with me.

Quote:
Post a well worded, logical argument that forms a coherent thought, and I will reconsider my position on the issue of filter systems in general, and this one in specific.
My CustomFilter system is there to be used as Advanced Filtering engine to allow new filtering methods and provide new enumeration functions.

It is not just only faster then the other filter systems that are out but it's also well documentated, works well and has a logical concept behind.

Each filter can be connected with another one thus making the filters be able to have endless subfilters. That allows to make filtertrees.

Quote:
If this were some few hundred years ago, this would be the point at which I slap you with a glove, for the challenge has been made.
But we aren't, get it.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth-Fury
If this were some few hundred years ago, this would be the point at which I slap you with a glove, for the challenge has been made.

*Laughs* --what?
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
CustomFilter is useful because it is able to connect PlayerEnumeration with UnitEnumeration.
What does that even mean?

Quote:
It is aswell useful because it is really fast and provides new enumeration functions like EnumUnitsInRangeOfLine.
Native filters are faster and then there's this.

Quote:
My CustomFilter system is there to be used as Advanced Filtering engine to allow new filtering methods and provide new enumeration functions.

It is not just only faster then the other filter systems that are out but it's also well documentated, works well and has a logical concept behind.

Each filter can be connected with another one thus making the filters be able to have endless subfilters. That allows to make filtertrees.
I don't particularly care about other filter systems, since my complaint isn't that other systems are better, but that doing filters natively is better. I'm still waiting for a specific example of this being significantly better than just using native filters, so an example (preferably one that is likely to be used in real life) where using the system results in significantly shorter and/or more readable code than you would get if you just wrote a native filter function.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
You might be better in English as I am but that shouldn't matter at all, since you are American (or I guess so) and I am not having English as my mother language. I don't really care how great my English is as long as people can understand me.
Therein lies the problem. People often have trouble, or are incapable of understanding you.

As well, failing to care aboot the quality of your communication is a showing of great disrespect, and an invitation to mockery. If what you have to say is not worth trying to say it well, is it worth saying at all? The answer is almost universally "No". What is not worth saying is not worth being heard.

(There is a hint as to my nationality above.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
CustomFilter is useful because it is able to connect PlayerEnumeration with UnitEnumeration.
So is vJASS...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
It is aswell useful because it is really fast and provides new enumeration functions like EnumUnitsInRangeOfLine.
That has nothing to do with filtering, which asks the question: Why is it in a library related to filtering, instead of being in a library related to convenience functions for enumerating?

The existence of that function in the library is a red herring. Sure, if you added a system for calculating how sexy units are to TimerUtils and renamed it to "UnitSexynessUtils", the library would still be useful. It would not be useful for it's main focus, however. It would be useful because something useful that is irrelevant to the library was tacked on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
Just because something has many cons doesn't mean it's useless or bad at all, it just proves people might not understand the pros of it.
Straw man. I did not say it is useless or bad because it has many cons. I noted that your inability to provide an argument for it was depressing.

Now, responding to your actual response:

When the negatives of something outweigh the positives, that thing is generally considered to be bad. Many negatives have been brought forth. You have failed to bring forth a decent argument showcasing any positives. No one else has really shown any positives.

It would be so very stupid for anyone to accept something as anything but complete shit when no positive aspects can be found.

If people just aren't seeing the light; if people just can't comprehend how it is good like you can, it is your job as the creator to form a decent argument or prose for it. You have failed to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
Just because I do not post something against your points doesn't mean I have nothing against them, sometimes it's just easier to not discuss at all when you see the others do not want to discuss, just to say what they think.
I would call that another straw man.

I have openly challenged you to a logical discussion, and asserted that if you can form an argument with enough cogency, I will reevaluate my position. Your statement misrepresents that by ignoring it. By failing to address the situation in context, you make an irrelevant statement.

I think I've changed my mind. I'll call it a "straw herring".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
There are enough discussions which are not really discussions, but more a kind of opinion change and that was it. For example the politics. 90% of their discussions are worthless because there will be no result at all.
If I am understanding you correctly, you speak some deep truth there. Of course, it hard to know if I am understanding you correctly. In any event, that has no bearing on the discussion at hand, so, moving on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
If you think flaming will open the gate of intelligence, you are welcome to do such, but please note that I don't care about people that do not know how to probably talk in a respectful manner to each other.
Straw man... I did not say I will ridicule you. I essentially state that doing something stupid will open the door for people to treat you like an idiot in general.

As well, let me note that ignoring a logical, well formed argument because you dislike the way it is presented is a form of active ignorance. One can't ignore the fact that the sky is blue simply because no one has stated the fact to them without presenting it a way such as: "Hey, lard ass, the sky is blue!".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
I dislike it but since you are more famous as I am there is no way anybody would accept with me.

*Side with you.

Griffen would not side with you. Dusk would side with you if he believes you are correct. I highly suspect the same of Anitarf. Vexorian will just ignore you until you stop bugging him.

Griffen has his own opinion aboot you that is independent of my "fame" or anything I have said or done.

Vexorian is just lazy and inactive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
My CustomFilter system is there to be used as Advanced Filtering engine to allow new filtering methods and provide new enumeration functions.
You don't define the term "Advanced Filtering engine", which makes the statement pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
It is not just only faster then the other filter systems that are out
Being better than what exists does not make something good.

As well, your implementation is truly awful, for reasons I am far too lazy to go in to, due to my lack of faith in the basic concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
but it's also well documentated,
It is not well documented. It has some examples. It almost completely lacks actual documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
works well
You do not qualify that statement with what aspect of it works well, making it completely irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
and has a logical concept behind.

Each filter can be connected with another one thus making the filters be able to have endless subfilters. That allows to make filtertrees.
You fail to explain why that is useful compared to writing your own filters in plain ol' vJass, which is the biggest argument against the basic concept of this system.

---------------------------------

Overall, your response contains many logical fallacies. Most of the fallacies it contains are ones relating to irrelevance. As well, you have failed to bring forth any new assertions related to the actual code or concept, or provide arguments as to why the assertions you repeat are correct. This is yet more proof by assertion.

You have done very poorly in response to my challenge. I would grade your response an F.

--------------------------------

The burden of defending/proving a statement is on the person who made it. You state that your filter system is a useful and good library, yet you fail to defend it. No one else seems able to bring forth many, or really any points to defend it on. Your continual proof by assertion tactic will not work against me. You must actually provide an argument in refutation of the points I have brought forth, or you must accept your failure and be silent. (Or, god forbid, show open humility.)

I am not arguing with you for the sake of argument. I am not arguing with you because I dislike you personally. I am arguing because you are putting forth a view that is counter to my reasoning, and you are doing so in a way that is absurd from a rational viewpoint. If you actually do form a cohesive argument that lends some credence to this system or the idea in general, I will quite willingly reevaluate my views on the subject. You have failed to do that. You have failed to make an even basic well-formed argument. Therefore, I feel quite justified in the statement: You are not intelligent, or wise.

Wisdom is knowing when to speak. Intelligence is knowing what you say. You have demonstrated neither. If anything, you have demonstrated the polar opposite: Failing to know when to be silent, and failing to be able to form an argument.

I welcome any reply you have. I also hope you are wise enough to be silent.

(I wish I had a GIF of that scene in Episode 3 were Obi Wan gets the high ground, warns Anakin to not try it, then Anakin says "You underestimate my power", jumps, and gets pwned.)
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:11 AM   #22
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So as a result of all, just because I am not able to create such well-formed American sentences like you the system should not be approved?

It's hard (at least for me) to speak in the high English language you do and I try my best to do so.

If that really is true I highly dehort anyone (who is not a well-speaking American) to submit anything here.

I thought this would be a friendly international place but all that I read is arrogant talk just because I am better in my native language.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachron
So as a result of all, just because I am not able to create such well-formed American sentences like you the system should not be approved?

It's hard (at least for me) to speak in the high English language you do and I try my best to do so.

If that really is true I highly dehort anyone (who is not a well-speaking American) to submit anything here.

I thought this would be a friendly international place but all that I read is arrogant talk just because I am better in my native language.

So little of what I said has to do with the quality of your language. Most of it has to do with the content of what you say. (Or rather, the lack thereof.)

This is not an international forum. This is an English forum that generally tolerates sup-par English, as one's abilities with the English language hold no bearing to one's skill as a programmer or artist.

However, if the language barrier is truly so great that you can not communicate effectively in issues relating to code, you need to leave and find a site that is primarily in your native language. If you can not actually interact with the community effectively, such as explaining why something you have created is not useless, you are not actually part of the community. You can not expect the community to accept anything you say as fact without explanation, simply because you are incapable of providing it. If you do expect that, then please leave this website now, and never dare enter my gaze. I do not tolerate choosing ignorance. I tolerate expecting it from others even less so.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:31 AM   #24
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And... he's NOT American, are you, Earth-Fury?
I say British, probably... Scottish. I'm probably utterly wrong, though. =P
Edited because: Damn, he's (secret)-an. Meh, I was close =P.

Anyway, I have a Filter System that is both faster and more intuitive than this, it's called "CTRL+C, CTRL+V" and always gives me the best results.

It can be better than any other Filter System, but as long as it's worse than good ol' copy/pasting, what's the purpose in using it, I ask?
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:47 AM   #25
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I know this is an english-only forum, but i wanna make sure anachron understands me...
@ Anachron


dein filtersystem kann so gut sein wie es will, aber es ist - und wird es auch für alle zeit sein - langsamer als eigene filter. zum anderen ist es (abgesehen von ally-checks) kein großer aufwand seine filter selber zu schreiben. es wird einfach nicht angenommen, weil es nicht gebraucht wird - sag jetzt nicht ich hätte keine ahnung von was ich rede, ich hab ja selber eins geschrieben.

und wegen deinem einglisch:
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In den Vereinigten Staaten haben zwar manche Bundesstaaten Englisch als Amtssprache festgelegt, die Legislative der Vereinigten Staaten selbst jedoch hat es nie in diesen Status erhoben.


@Rest


Your filter system can be as good as it wants, but it is - and it will be for all time - slower than its own filter. on the other it is (except for ally-checks) no great effort to write its own filter. there simply is not accepted because it is not needed - do not say now I have no idea of what I speak, I've even written one myself.

Too lazy to translate myself, so this was translated with google-translator, be patient if it's nonsense...

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Old 03-30-2010, 04:03 PM   #26
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And... he's NOT American, are you, Earth-Fury?
I say British, probably... Scottish. I'm probably utterly wrong, though. =P
Edited because: Damn, he's (secret)-an. Meh, I was close =P.

He's as much of an american as I am. But I am not aboot to tell you what that is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Peppers
Anyway, I have a Filter System that is both faster and more intuitive than this, it's called "CTRL+C, CTRL+V" and always gives me the best results.

It can be better than any other Filter System, but as long as it's worse than good ol' copy/pasting, what's the purpose in using it, I ask?

Seriously Anachron, this system isn't a good idea because the native filters are already faster and less confusing than this system. Sure, I could learn how to use the system, but people who read my code would still have to learn. And seeing how it isn't any more effecient than the native approach, why should anyone learn it?

Sometimes code ideas work, sometimes they don't. You have to learn to take criticism and realize that this just doesn't work.

As for your jabs about not speaking english. The majority of regulars on this site don't speak english as their first language. As well, we have many people who still have troubles with english (whether its on purpose or not, I'm not to sure), for example Toadcop and his music mania.

On top of this, we had resources in the past that have gone through multiple pages of this between many people, so don't you dare say its a personal issue.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:07 PM   #27
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So as a result of all, just because I am not able to create such well-formed American sentences like you the system should not be approved?
Your grasp of the english language has nothing to do with this. You could respond to my complaints without a word of english: a code example where using this system is demonstrably easier for the end user than using native filters would do just fine. I have repeatedly asked for such an example, with no response. Instead I get to read continued assertions that this is the best system out there when that wasn't even brought into question, plus some off-topic rants about language (Earth-Fury is just as guilty as you here).
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:14 PM   #28
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Aboot!

I'm Canadian too! Woooo!

*Opens beer*
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:23 PM   #29
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If that is a molson canadian, I am going to kick your ass...
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:25 PM   #30
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