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Old 03-13-2009, 01:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyack
melee map with 100 units per player in a full house

You can't have 100 units in a melee map per player unless they are all peons, and peons are not going to be given Deadeye's spells.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyack
If you love this site, do your best for this site and offer only the best.

Yet you self-approve your own submissions in mid-discussion.

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Originally Posted by moyack
The only part a normal user should be able to change and have control is the configuration part. Everything else will be a chance to make the code unstable.

Again, in your submission you allow the user direct access to your damage trigger (making it "unreliable" as you say) and in addition if it is copy+pasted into a map that uses UnitDamageTarget it will crash the map on the first damage event.

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Old 03-13-2009, 01:38 PM   #32
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Rickets requires unit indexing but that isn't stated in the Requirements for it.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xombie
Yet you self-approve your own submissions in mid-discussion.
xombie, keep your comments and criticisms of moyack out of this thread. Period. I will not stand for such belittlement of moderation, regardless whether it is founded or not. You have already proven that you have no regard for the staff of this site by creating that topic in Triggers & Scripts instead of keeping it strictly to discussion with the administration. If you persist in harassing moyack, I will be forced to put an end to it myself. Please don't make me do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyack
It is not my task to make benchmarks. But you can test it by yourself running any of these effect-over-time spells in a map with 1200 units (to be clear: we're assuming this spell is applied to a normal unit and we have a melee map with 100 units per player in a full house). Now put them to cast the ability, or at least 50% of them. Horrible lag.
If you have 1200 timers iterating the same way it would be just as laggy if not worse. Your point here is moot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyack
Now you'll say "That's a non sense", AKA "I'm lazy" for my eyes, then I say, "yes, because this is a hero spell", and then you'll say "of course!!" then you'll realize that for a hero spell this scenario is impossible, so this spell is actually casted not so often (probably never if the hero is not chosen), so your code can perform as fast (not faster) as one using TimerUtils, but then the efficiency remains in the code length (AKA simplicity), so... which will be faster?? by the tacit programmer's rule we can say: the shorter code. How do you achieve a shorter code?? using TimerUtils and attaching data to timers.
Shorter code does not necessarily equate to better-made code. I am sorry, but you are wrong here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyack
So don't come here again with your "that's non sense" and care that your stuff can be better. If you love this site, do your best for this site and offer only the best. Other thing: stop believing in the common sense and don't be so stubborn, do tests, compare. You have to do your own benchmarks, not somebody else.
You dare question my loyalty and care for this website? Moyack, I am offended; get off your high horse and deal with the fact that TimerUtils is not always the best bloody solution to timer handling. There is no reason to use N timers with TimerUtils when 1 timer is sufficient. Your request is absurd and unless someone like Vex walks in here and tells me that he's done tests to show that N timers is more efficient than 1 timer (somehow), I am not going to change it.

It is not my responsibility to define the standard coding procedures for spells. My method is not wrong nor inefficient. Your claims are purely theoretical and not founded in experiment. I will not change my spells based upon purely theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
Rickets requires unit indexing but that isn't stated in the Requirements for it.
Valid point, I'll fix that.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:46 PM   #34
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My experiment is called PoC with AI casting all the spells simultaneously. I've found that spells that use TimerUtils casted simultaneously reduce less the FPS and frees faster the memory than single timer spells. That's my proof, You can see it yourself if you do that test.

Meanwhile, while I am a moderator of this section (probably not for too long) I consider your spell unapproved. I won't graveyard it because I will left you the chance (not probable) that you do the tests.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:06 PM   #35
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I do not consider your guesswork valid proof of anything. I'm sorry if that offends you, it is not my intention.
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:52 AM   #36
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a) Making the trigger public is something I do not think is appropriate. Giving the ability to the users to disable the trigger is given as an excuse for this, but I what I don't get is in which circumstances woudl a user want to make a spell not work any more? Is performance the rationale behind this? Just know disabling a spell's trigger shouldn't improve performance whatsoever, but a single function to allow the user to enable / disable it could work...

It goes against encapsullation to make the trigger public, what if later you update the spell so that it doesn't use the trigger anymore? (For example for an actual performance improvement using a spell events system) The user depending on this variable will not survive anymore.

Anyway, this is something I consider minor and just an arguable opinion so I wouldn't have it as a requirement for approval.


b) About single timer vs. red timer utils. I think single timer will be faster as long as the spell is actually executing every 0.035 seconds, else it would be slower (If you had a timer that counted until each event expired it would be slower)

This is an open problem: Is running 100 actions every 0.04 seconds by a single timer really better than running 100 timers each every 0.04 but each running a single action?

Single timer WILL be faster. But what's unknown is whether the players will perceive a better performance. In my case I tested it and multiple timers looked better. However, other people tested and didn't notice.

This is rather interesting because the raw speed improvement of using a single timer comes precisely when there are more than 1 instances, with just one instances, I think red timer utils is tied with this...

However, single timer works so far and everyone uses it, I think the difference is meaningless and for a hero spell it is really something that I wouldn't care about. Code is arguably simpler with single timers. So I prefer it for this sort of thing.

--
And this issue is non-trivial, everyone please notice that wc3 is not a batch system, we actually care more about interface responsiveness than about raw speed. When I ran 400 objects in a single timer, I had some periodic freezes even though the overall speed was faster than H2I-0x100000. I was amazed that lag-wise H2I+subtraction was that good and this is what made me stop trying to improve on the single timer approach and move on to CSData...
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:33 AM   #37
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Oh and since I don't consider the reasons for the unapproval important enough , I am approving this.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexorian
It goes against encapsullation to make the trigger public, what if later you update the spell so that it doesn't use the trigger anymore? (For example for an actual performance improvement using a spell events system) The user depending on this variable will not survive anymore.
Now that, actually, is a good reason for it to be a private trigger. It being public is because I actually do it in my maps (Disable spells when I want certain parts of them to be ignored). I don't mind, though, and since you've provided a good enough reason for them to not be, I'll go ahead and fix it.

EDIT:
Updated. I could probably make the spell use a local trigger for the ability instead of a private global, but I didn't think of that at the time of updating.
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