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Old 06-08-2006, 08:46 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
Kind of odd that you got in such a heated discussion about icon filesize, then, since you could easily stuff 150 64x64 icons in 700kb.
Agreed.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
Kind of odd that you got in such a heated discussion about icon filesize, then, since you could easily stuff 150 64x64 icons in 700kb.

There's a lot of things I could have chosen to do with that 700kb:
  • Use that 700kb to replace the 32x32 buttons with 64x64 buttons
  • Use that 700kb on custom models
  • Use that 700kb on music
  • Use that 700kb on improving the quality of imported sounds
  • Not use that 700kb at all to decrease filesize and improve download times
  • Possibly add a custom loading screen
  • Possibly add a custom UI
  • Use any combination of these

Choices, choices, choices. The 32x32 buttons are sufficient, the models included with WC3 are suffcient, the sound effects are sufficient, the filesize (with my weird logic) is sufficient, and the current "generic" loading screen and UI seem sufficient. The only thing I found that was insufficient was the music. So, I used that 700kb there. Right now, everything feels perfect. All that's left is to take care of a few problems.

I should have an updated map by tomorrow. I also thought of a few ideas to address the issues with Infiltration. Once Survival is fit enough for approval, I'll begin incorporating the general gameplay triggers into it.
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:50 PM   #33
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Will there be some different music on these three maps of yours?.. That would be best :)
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aray
Will there be some different music on these three maps of yours?.. That would be best :)

I don't think so. Besides my limited access to suitable music, I guess you can say that the Mission Start music is the theme song for S3 Marine Corps. :)

Anyways, I have an updated map attached below. A few things I should mention though...

Quote:
  • If you have weapon A equipped, and weapon B has 0 ammo left in it, then switch to weapon B, you need to wait to equip weapon B THEN reload weapon B. Perhaps is the weapon is empty, when equipping it you should reload it as well.

I decided not to add this in. It's an automatic process that sacrifices the ability to quickly switch weapons, and because the situation can change very fast, this feature would probably kill you (I died quite a few times because of reloading).

Quote:
  • Toward the end of the game there was so many enmy units that they all could not be moved at once, resulting in juttered movement. This made running away in the last 3 minutes extremely easy. I suggest removing the basic alien units later in the game (Remove the ones already on the map).

If I recall correctly, this happens when the host doesn't have sufficient CPU power to process every computer-controlled unit. I haven't had much problem with it, but I have already cut down the max amount of computer-controlled units on the map down to 50 at a time as of (v1.10). Bosses are excluded from this limit (you probably haven't encountered them since you played a low difficulty). I'm willing to lower it to 45, but any lower could severely compromise the challenge of the map by allowing for more time to recover and regroup in between waves. The "Lings" already tend to spawn less (if at all) in the later parts of the game, and the same thing with the "Hydras" and "Guardians". In fact, if you haven't gone past Phase 25, you haven't seen most of the monsters that appear on this map. :p

Also, I've added an FAQ section to the quests window to address the issue with blurry buttons, as well as answer a few questions that I get asked often by email. I also changed a few words in some of the existing text for extra clarity.

Have fun!
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Old 06-16-2006, 07:59 AM   #35
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*bump*

UPDATE: For the past week, I've been incorporating the modified general gameplay aspects into Infiltration and Defense. From what I can tell, the main issue with Infiltration is the lack of information regarding objectives. I'm also making it so that items are no longer spawned at startup, but when a player opens a door. It should significantly reduce the amount of entities on the map, and will render a map hack useless as an added bonus. As for Defense, I have plans underway to redesign the layout of the base.

As for Survival, I'm just wondering if any of you have checked it out yet. I would very much like to have the map in an approved state before fully implementing everything across the other two maps.

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Old 06-16-2006, 01:34 PM   #36
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Sorry, I'm doing my best to review as many maps as possible when I get a chance. I'll try to get to this tonight for you.
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Old 06-21-2006, 06:34 PM   #37
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I finaly got around to testing this map; I haven't played earlier versions of the maps, but I liked what I saw now. We played survival and although the beginning was a bit slow, the game picked up the pace soon enough and once we assembled the beacon, the real fun began as we had to franticaly reload weapons, switch them as ammo ran out, and send runners out to find more.

All in all it was good fun, and I would approve the map, but I wish to play defense and infiltration first and if they meet the standard of survival, approve them alltogether.

This being said, I do have some thoughts and suggestions about the further development of the map; it's fun, but it's not perfect.

- The different colours for different item types get the job done functionaly, but not aestheticaly. Considering that a custom item model that uses in-game textures takes really really little space, you could easily import a few of them, no need for each gun to have it's own, it could be just a generic gun and ammo model... just to avoid the chests of gold that really have no business in this map.

- The beacon model and the dropship model could be better as well, custom models this big would probably take more filesize, but heck, the survival map is smaller than the other two, so no problem. If you don't want to get custom models for them, surely you can find better fitting ones in war3. I mean, goblin workshop for the beacon?

- The game would benefit from continious hints being displayed on the screen, like listing the status of the current objective or something like that. After you play the map once, you kind of get it, and even then it would help if the game kept you in touch with what the other players have accomplished so far; but when you're playing for the first time, this sort of help would be very valuable, especialy on the other maps with more complicated objectives. I know it sounds lame, implementing features that are only useful for every player once, but look at it this way, if players don't have fun playing your map the first time, they won't play it the second time; so making a map friendly towards first-time players is a big priority.

- Continiuing with visual issues, the enemies don't fit so well together, since they use all sorts of models. I would prefer a more homogenous bunch, with same models used with different scale and tinting to get different aliens. The bloodfiends especialy don't fit well, I feel, something like faceless ones would make a better melee alien.

- Gameplay could get spiced up some more, for example if super strong and super slow aliens were added, players would have to retreat while fireing at them because it would take so long to bring one down, thus encouraging players to scout while defending and setup outer peremiters so they have room to retreat. Just an idea, the gameplay isn't boring as it is due to the weapon and ammo mechanics that already take some of the player's time, but things like this would surely improve it even more.

- It's good that switching to an already loaded weapon doesn't take as long as loading it, it's just a bit bothersome that the cooldown is still as long, giving false information. I know it's not a big deal and that fixing it would require two versions of each weapon, one with a shorter cooldown, and dynamicaly changing them in the unit's inventory whenever switching from or to a non-empty weapon; but as a perfectionist, I have to bring it up. Besides, this would also allow for distingushing between loaded and empty weapons which are on the ground, so implementing this could actually be very useful.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:18 PM   #38
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Anitarf basically covered my feelings too.
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Old 06-23-2006, 12:12 AM   #39
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Got around to playing the Defense map, it was a public game so it might have been an older version. The items didn't have different colours yet, for example.

Anyway, the compound terrain felt slightly too big and complicated (exchanging ammo that aliens dropped between fronts and rushing to assist when the aliens attacked a single entrance took way too long), and the initial searching and transporting stage of the game too short compared to the later prolonged defense. Otherwise, the map lives up to the standard of the survival counterpart. I saw the sniper wisps, they were a nice touch, requireing players to push out to eliminate them, maybe they just had a tad too much hp for such a long ranged opponent - pushing out to them is hard enough in later stages of the game, so getting surrounded far away from help while shooting at them for so long is not really fun.

Some more general thoughts that came up while playing:

- the text-command-based item stacking is rather clumsy, I really recommend a drag&drop system like weaaddar's Drag and Drop Systems, or automatic stacking on pickup.

- extra weapons drops are hardly needed except for the occasional more advanced weapon. Mostly, those weapons just tend to accumulate on the ground somewhere. Maybe the weapon to ammo drop ratio should be tweaked in the favour of the later?
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:24 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
All in all it was good fun, and I would approve the map, but I wish to play defense and infiltration first and if they meet the standard of survival, approve them alltogether.

I take it that Survival is now in an approved state? If that's the case, I should be able to make the necessary changes to Infiltration and Defense. In fact, I already have made a lot of the changes to Infiltration and it's ready to be reviewed (attached below). I'm still working on Defense and should have something within two days. Still, I'm glad to hear you guys enjoyed it! :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- The different colours for different item types get the job done functionaly, but not aestheticaly. Considering that a custom item model that uses in-game textures takes really really little space, you could easily import a few of them, no need for each gun to have it's own, it could be just a generic gun and ammo model... just to avoid the chests of gold that really have no business in this map.

I don't really like the idea of a generic gun model, especially considering the different shapes and sizes of each gun (SMG != Rocket Launcher). I also don't like the idea of having a unique model for each gun and ammo type due to filesize. Since I've already changed the model of the items to boxes and they seem to work, I'm just gonna stick with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- The beacon model and the dropship model could be better as well, custom models this big would probably take more filesize, but heck, the survival map is smaller than the other two, so no problem. If you don't want to get custom models for them, surely you can find better fitting ones in war3. I mean, goblin workshop for the beacon?

I wanted to put in custom models when I made it about 2 years ago, but I couldn't find a suitable one. Right now, I'm satisfied with the current models. Of course, feel free to suggest something and I might consider it. I used the goblin workshop because the thingamabob at the top looks like a transmitter for a distress beacon. Aside from that, I've already made 7 icons for each combination of parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- The game would benefit from continious hints being displayed on the screen, like listing the status of the current objective or something like that. After you play the map once, you kind of get it, and even then it would help if the game kept you in touch with what the other players have accomplished so far; but when you're playing for the first time, this sort of help would be very valuable, especialy on the other maps with more complicated objectives. I know it sounds lame, implementing features that are only useful for every player once, but look at it this way, if players don't have fun playing your map the first time, they won't play it the second time; so making a map friendly towards first-time players is a big priority.

Hehehe. It does sound lame. If a player doesn't have fun playing the map, I highly doubt it's because of messages not continuously popping up. If a player doesn't know what to do, they either press F9 and find out or (the most common solution) ask everyone what to do. If that doesn't help, they're still gonna be busy shooting aliens and blowing stuff up. :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- Continiuing with visual issues, the enemies don't fit so well together, since they use all sorts of models. I would prefer a more homogenous bunch, with same models used with different scale and tinting to get different aliens. The bloodfiends especialy don't fit well, I feel, something like faceless ones would make a better melee alien.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- Gameplay could get spiced up some more, for example if super strong and super slow aliens were added, players would have to retreat while fireing at them because it would take so long to bring one down, thus encouraging players to scout while defending and setup outer peremiters so they have room to retreat. Just an idea, the gameplay isn't boring as it is due to the weapon and ammo mechanics that already take some of the player's time, but things like this would surely improve it even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
I saw the sniper wisps, they were a nice touch, requireing players to push out to eliminate them, maybe they just had a tad too much hp for such a long ranged opponent - pushing out to them is hard enough in later stages of the game, so getting surrounded far away from help while shooting at them for so long is not really fun.

I take it you had some short games? I do have super strong aliens (Zakus and Overlords). They're not slow, but they can act as a meat shield for the other enemeis. The Zakus uses the Faceless Ones model. They appear in later phases because they're relatively strong. Overlords cast Frost Armor, which is especially annoying if you decide to melee attack. As for the sniper wisps (Mists), Missile Launchers work well against them if your Fire Proficiency is high enough. I should also mention these monsters appear across all 3 maps. :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- It's good that switching to an already loaded weapon doesn't take as long as loading it, it's just a bit bothersome that the cooldown is still as long, giving false information. I know it's not a big deal and that fixing it would require two versions of each weapon, one with a shorter cooldown, and dynamicaly changing them in the unit's inventory whenever switching from or to a non-empty weapon; but as a perfectionist, I have to bring it up. Besides, this would also allow for distingushing between loaded and empty weapons which are on the ground, so implementing this could actually be very useful.

I'm gonna have to give a definite no on this. As it stands, I have around 50 weapons, including the versions with attached components. Doing this would require me to make an additional 50 items and change some code across all 3 maps. Overall, I don't have the bawls to do it. :p

----------

Another thing I should mention, I noticed that the resource and supply bar on the top-right of the screen was taking up valuable space and didn't do anything. I thought I should make it useful for something by simply displaying an ammo count, as well as some map information.

As I've stated earlier in the post, I have attached a recently updated version of Infiltration ready to be reviewed. Check it out, and have fun!
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File Type: w3x S3 Marine Corps Infiltration v102PRE.w3x (1.38 MB, 21 views)
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:37 PM   #41
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Did you try editing the songs and musics ? My song took about 2.4Mb when I first included it in the map. I jumped on my chair, but after I found the really nice Switch Converter found here and it proves to be incredible. Now the song takes up 200 Kb maximum. That's more than 10 times less and it still sounds the same ! The song is also 2 mins 45 seconds long.
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:51 AM   #42
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Revisions to Defense have been made and is now ready for review (attached below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxtreme
Did you try editing the songs and musics ? My song took about 2.4Mb when I first included it in the map. I jumped on my chair, but after I found the really nice Switch Converter found here and it proves to be incredible. Now the song takes up 200 Kb maximum. That's more than 10 times less and it still sounds the same ! The song is also 2 mins 45 seconds long.

My music takes up around 700kb total. I can definitely make it smaller, but I'd rather not because it would just sound awful and destroy its purpose on the map. I'm gonna check it out and see if it would reduce the size without sacrificing quality. Thanks for the link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
- extra weapons drops are hardly needed except for the occasional more advanced weapon. Mostly, those weapons just tend to accumulate on the ground somewhere. Maybe the weapon to ammo drop ratio should be tweaked in the favour of the later?

Another thing I should mention: The amount of ammo created from the supply drop is affected by the amount of NPC marines still alive. Marines have priority over ammo, so you'll get less of it if you don't keep those marines alive.

----------

It took me longer than expected, but I finally finished the pre-release version of Defense. A lot of people were suggesting that I change the layout of the base, so I did just that.

As well, I found a suitable model for the dropship. This change will be reflected in all S3MC maps. Clear and sufficient credit has been given in the F9 menu.

Considering summer is here, I'll probably be doing something other than work on maps for a bit. Check it out whenever you get a chance. I'll be taking a look at this thread for updates from time to time. Have fun!
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Old 07-04-2006, 05:19 AM   #43
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Well I've got around to try Infiltration and Survival with friends...

I won't start a huge list of feedbacks but I'll state that...

- The objectives aren't really clear (I didn't try Defense). I mean, it took us 2 retries before understanding Infiltration correctly, and only the Generators part. We never found about the codes :P Regarding Survival... Well you don't know where to go. But the name says itself : you must survive and find things. I liked the fact you gotta search and destroy so my comment will finally only regard Infiltration. We thought about the E-mail thingys but it never told any code so we died - overwhelmed.

Except this well I saw a flaw with Rocket Launchers. They suck compared to Grenade Launcher ! They don't splash enough. Just use a Grenade Launcher and you will see the whole difference between the two. Well the gameplay problem where you have to click doesn't seem important so I skip it since it releaves only to the player to click ''A''. But the splash sucks compared to the grenade launcher !! :)

Other than this well the map is really fun. When you're overwhelmed you kind of freak out and these are my favorite moments playing your map :D

Good map ! I like it.

Yours,
Daxtreme.
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Old 07-04-2006, 05:41 AM   #44
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Here is a SentryIII review.
-OMFG YOU SPELLED DEFENCE WRONG YOU F***ING IDIOT. HOLY S**T WHAT A F***TARD!!! ITS DEFENSE LOL WTF !?!?!!??
-OMG USE DICTIONARY.COM TO HELP YOU FIX THESE PROBLEMS YOU PIECE
OF S***!!!!
-AFTER VIEWING THE SWEET UNIQUE 100% ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY ITS LOOKING PRETTY BAD. YOU SPELLED DEFENCE WRONG.
-I THINK IT SERIOUSLY NEEDS SOME WORK ESPECIALLY SOME SPELLING.
-YOU SPELLED DEFENCE WRONG
-IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE FEEDBACK FROM ME THEN IM NOT GIVING ANY FEEDBACK AT ALL YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF S***. YOU DON'T DESERVE IT.

Thats a SentryIII response. Oh no if that angers anyone, it's your fault because your supposed to get criticized. If you can't handle these replies that should make your game better like COMPLETE grammar and spelling problems like Defence. The map REALLY needs some work!

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Old 07-04-2006, 06:51 AM   #45
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ROFL his feedback was a god feedback actually. I'm the only one who read it, except you and SentryIII.

He gave you a good review, that's all that is believable, because after all what you've wrote tonight throughout the map threads, no one will listen to you. SentryIII is known here, I am unknown but I think I'm respected enough to be listened at. You, however, just proved you're evil and whatever anyone who will try your map and provide you feedback will say, you will become mad.

Feedbacks shock everyone, because they reveal the TRUTH about your map. What you didn't see and what others saw. I saw the same flaw as SentryIII as I always read on wars and I did found other flaws and issues. But what would my comment have changed anyways ? It was a feedback, and you hate feedbacks.

He did list the correct gameplay issues regarding your map. You just don't know the solutions. If you don't honestly recognize them as Gameplay issues, then you do not deserve any attention here.

You completely missed the point kilroy40. What you just did here prooves that you are a kid, or at least think as a kid. You don't deserve the attention from anyone here. You're evil. No one here ever did or acted like you are acting at the moment. You waste your time here.

BTW : You should REALLY consider stopping posting such comments RIGHT NOW because soon it'll be too late. As your negative reputation tells, you aren't really popular here.

Don't worry, it is not too late yet you can still tell SentryIII and everyone you're sorry for such a behavior, etc.

Now, to serious feedbacks...
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Last edited by Daxtreme : 07-04-2006 at 06:52 AM.
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