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Old 08-29-2007, 06:40 PM   #16
Fulla
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I think you should remove Standard war3 attributes all together in a sense.

Replace say
Str = Critical (% chance to gain a critical)
Agi = ?
Int = Resistance (% Spell Damage Reduction)

Then you could go a bit heavier on your attribute system making all your desired stats.
Currently they just seem to conflict with each other.

Stats would obviously be displayed on the Multiboard, and learned via your bonus ability.
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:06 PM   #17
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Thanks for testing it and providing feedback all! Hopefully my super response isn't too daunting to read, I just addressed everyone's concerns and suggestions. (Which I appreciate!)

Quote:
wasn't real sure how many I had, so I just kept clicking different ones
Your lumber is how many you have, I just haven't imported the icon to show that yet. I also don't think I've changed the interface yet to tell you that lumber is attributes.

Quote:
before I knew, since i did not chase the Kobold with the key, about a dozen other Kobolds found and attacked me, I managed to take out about 5 before I died
I even noted that single player is incredibly difficult because each hero type serves a role that complements the others. Because of this, the heroes without ANY other heroes seem to lack in certain departments. The paladin is cool in that he can heal himself and still deal some attack damage, but trust me when I say that he is not going to kill a 10-unit squad of enemies. He just cannot. Now if you had a Sorceress as your second person's character, you can beat the first level if you are good at dancing around and at the same time hunting the target.

Quote:
then I never revived....
When you die, it creates a ghost of yourself where you died and selects it for you. The mana of your ghost starts at 0 and regenerates to 100. At 100 mana, you can cast an ability on the ghost that revives your hero. This is how revives work in the map. Technically you will eventually (When I add it) lose once all heroes are dead at any given time. But for now, you can still get it working even if everyone dies.

Quote:
Then we tried again with the same heroes, and we beat it sort of easily. We just stood in the middle and I spammed heal on him and he blizzarded whenever the kobold with the key came back. If he wasn't dying then I just whacked things.
You need to consider that this in essence a team game. Beating it with fewer people is of course possible, because the game adjusts to player count. However you need to realize that this is level 1 of 10, this is the level where you get to learn the way the map works, so it's naturally going to be the easiest level. Now I don't believe in watered down tutorials, so you can still die terribly in the first level, but of course it will progressively get more intense as the game progresses. (Notably only 1 level is coded so far)

Quote:
I put all of my points into alacrity, because it was the only one that actually increased survivability.
Untrue, Endurance increases your life regeneration. Trust me when I say that life regeneration helps a hell of a lot. Also note that the Paladin's spells get better based on certain attributes. Putting all of your points into alacrity as a paladin would make your heal pretty damned weak. You need to consider these things. :p

Quote:
EDIT: Oh also. I'm not quite sure what the sorc spells were, but the blizzard (which appeared to be her "ultimate" (or at least high level skill, if her make up is similar to the paladin)) really trumped anything else I saw her do, and I don't think I really noticed her other spells.
The Blizzard is a level 3 ability and costs a significant chunk of mana with a much longer cooldown than the other spells. Her other spells are just as awesome, but are much more spammable. Try playing one, you'll notice you need more than just Blizzard to do your best. You'll also notice how differently her skills synergize with what attributes she uses.

Quote:
The basic healing move was several orders of magnitude better than the ultimate
This of course is debatable. In a 2 player game? Hell yeah healing is better. But consider that the game allows up to 8 players and that there's no limit to how many units are healed by it. This makes it far superior to the normal heal if you have 4 or so players. This is unavoidable when making AOE spells, and honestly perfectly reasonable. Shouldn't certain things be better or worse in different cases? Doesn't that make sense and make the game more thought-promoting?

Quote:
I think you should remove Standard war3 attributes all together in a sense. Currently they just seem to conflict with each other.
You again forget that none of the attributes work like the ones in WC3. Intelligence increases damage, mana, and mana regeneration. Agility increases armor, attack speed, and damage. Strength increases life, life regeneration, and damage. (All depending on primary attribute) Those are all things that the attributes do not do. I also believe in embracing what WC3 gave us to use, so I will.

For instance, agi/str/int are all changeable using items, whereas your other attributes are not. Agi/str/int are also not capped, whereas your attributes are. However, the attributes allow you to modify all of the OTHER aspects of a hero that you'd want. Critical hit chance, critical hit multiplier, movement speed, and evasion. However also! The attributes provide bonuses to spell effectiveness. Every spell is based on your ranks in the associated attribute(s), whereas agi/str/int do not factor into those.

I sort of designed it to be 8 attributes, where 3 of them are the blizzard ones and 5 were the custom ones. Also, there are about 6 attributes that cannot be changed above 0 at the current point. (No items means no armor/weapon upgrades, and if you read the tooltips in the map you'll know how amazingly useful those are too)
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:23 PM   #18
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I guess I'll take your word for it on endurance, but it doesn't really sound useful at all. I had a twenty-something percent chance to dodge near the end, and it helped out maybe. But then I guess it didn't help out that much either. I don't know. If the game had been bigger I probably would have gone endurance, but then, it was just me and him so you know, you work with what you've got.

You're right about the heal in an 8 player game. It gets better and better with more people. I know.

Er, my point wasn't exactly that the game was too easy, just that... we died at like level 1 on our first try and then beat it easily on our second, so maybe the learning curve needs some work, I don't know. I liked the game though. It's a nice idea. Also note that when you add items and stuff, it will be really, really easy because heroes will be even more powerful...
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:38 PM   #19
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I see your reasonaning, and on paper the 2 attribute systems probably go well together and probably also in practice.

However visually/cosmetically I dont think it does that well, it seems a bit messy and overcomplex. Having half the attributes in your Hero bar and half on the Multboard that is.

Example:
Durability, this will increase armor by +1?
So armor will gain +1 in your Hero bar and Durability on the multiboard will gain +1? Why both? (Assuming they do)

The Way id have it:

Strength > Critical
Agility > Block
Intelligence > Resistance (or Immunity, whichever you prefer)

Now all your stats can go nice and NEATLY all together on the multiboard, and also can be learned via ONE Attribute System

So you can Learn (Reordered a bit)
- Strength
- Endurace
- Agility
- SKill
- Alacrity
- Intelligence
- Wisdom
- Concentration

You dont just naturally gain a few points in the default war3 ones, and choose out of the 5, there alltogether as one.

Anyways I know you wont change the systems now, but just my thoughts.

===

Another suggestion, to keep the war3 theme, perhaps have a 3rd column, for bonuses in green.

Like:
Table:
StatBaseBonus
Wisdom3+2

Just like all normal attributes, damage, armor etc. have.
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:42 AM   #20
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great map, just thought you should know that Hanzaemon's Tempest srike can get you stuck in walls
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Old 08-01-2008, 08:30 AM   #21
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Lock Dusk away from the internet and his own computer, give him nothing but his USB flash drive with all of his maps and JNGP on it, and the world editor for WC3 and watch him go places.

I spent way too much time on this over the past like 12 days. I'm more than 75% on the way to completion, which is pretty wtfinsane as far as I'm concerned. I promised I'd release a map this summer and by the Gods I might yet make good on it!

PICTAR!


This is the most recent level I'm working on, yay! Oh, and yes I know, Blizzcliffs suck. I'll cover them up later or something. :p
I'll post the new version tomorrow.
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Old 08-01-2008, 03:03 PM   #22
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Awesome. And yea, the sunken dirt cliffs against lava is retarded looking. =P
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Old 08-01-2008, 03:55 PM   #23
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Wish I could import cliff tiles without replacing the old ones, stupid WC3.
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:21 PM   #24
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I think WEU lets you import another one.
But WEU is nasty, right? =X
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:02 PM   #25
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Well, you can re-import a good texture for the cliff and tile in the worst case.

Though a selection of models to go over the top is probably more economical.
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Old 08-03-2008, 12:11 PM   #26
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Hi brother RAOD-DAO-ZAO..im impressed with your RPG mapmaking skill and your talented sense...I love your models very much...Can i use them?
btw...About Rising_DUsk map..it looks promising..though just some heroes have been done..i found a blast playing it...good spells and ideas..^^
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:32 PM   #27
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Why not post a picture of each stage you've got so far? It's a fun and interesting map, I'll need to give it a go again when I get some time.
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:38 PM   #28
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Because that will ruin the surprise.

There's some of them up in the VZ forums. =w=



I think this map is gonna rock my world!
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:13 PM   #29
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Updated with the most recent alpha version. All 6 heroes are complete and 6 levels are complete as well. I'll probably be updating level 1 and 2, though, to make them a bit harder.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:26 PM   #30
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Level 1 definetly needs to be harder (judging from the version I played with you awhile back) but level 2 appeared to be unbeatable. I tried it a few times before the game with you and a few times after, none of the times we got past it.
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