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Old 05-04-2010, 09:17 PM   #1
Anitarf
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Default Hero levels, abilities, items...

Okay, how would one go about making WC3-style heros in SC2.

This is meant as a more general discussion topic; I'm not interested in implementation specifics so much as whether perfectly replicating the WC3 style is even the best way to go, what other UI possibilities do we have etc. (note that it should still be close to the WC3 style, any ideas for complex skilltrees and 20-attribute systems would be better off being posted in another thread). If you've already done more detailed work on this, feel free to share implementation details as well.

I plan to have some form of heroes in my first map and I'm looking for possibilities/ideas how to do leveling and skills.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:28 AM   #2
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Wait for this to be finished?
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:28 AM   #3
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You hear that levi? Hurry up! :P
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Old 05-05-2010, 05:06 AM   #4
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:53 PM   #5
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So, I was working on replicating the hero experience system from WC3 and it seems to be doable using veterancy behaviours. There are some problems though.

First of all, when you create a veterancy behaviour there are a couple of interesting things you'll notice. You can gain experience not only through kills, but also by dealing or taking damage. Since we're working on a WC3 style experience system, we'll ignore these for now and only focus on the kills.

Each unit has a field where you can set how much experience it is worth. The "experience fraction" field on the veterancy behaviour tells you how much of that experience the unit will gain when killing/damaging such a unit. So, if a Zealot gives 20 experience and your experience fraction is 2, your hero will gain 40 experience killing a zealot.

But how does our hero gain experience when an allied unit kills an enemy, like in WC3? This is where experience sharing comes into play. Unfortunately, this means that our units will also need to have a veterancy behaviour so the experience from the kills they make can be shared. As a result, the units will also have level bars and stuff like that. Let's hope (and pettition) Blizzard will separate the exp gain part of veterancy and levels part of veterancy into two behaviours, or at least allow us to disable the level display if we want to.

Now, the "shared fraction" field for our unit veterancy should be set to 1. That way, all of the experience gained by the unit (including the experience fraction multiplier) will be shared, thus the unit will remain at 0 experience. If you set this above 1, the unit will actually loose experience and go into the negative as it kills enemies. You will also need to set "shared radius" to something higher than 0. Another thing to not forget is the "share filters": you only want to share experience with friendly heroes, not all firendly units (in fact, by default, experience is not shared with friendly units at all).

If you have multiple valid share targets in range, the experience will be split among them. The annoying thing here is that the UI displays experience with decimals, so if you don't want the experience tooltip to look ugly then all your units should give amounts of experience that are divisible by the number of heroes that can be in range at the same time. For example, if a team can have 4 heroes, then the experience awarded for killing any unit should be divisible by 2,3 and 4.

That's it for the basics. As for more nuanced details of WC3 hero experience (such as bonus experience when you have only one hero at higher tech levels, no experience for high level heroes from neutral creeps, global experience sharing), some can probably be replicated using multiple veterancy abilities and validators, but I haven't looked into that so this is pure speculation. Since veterancy covers both experience gain as well as hero levels, I don't know how multiple veterancy behaviours would work on the same hero, what would happen to its levels?


Also, I am having difficulties replicating the hero skill learning. I made the learn ability according to a tutorial, but I don't know how to make the ability not appear on the hero until it is learned. In the tutorial video, it seemed to work automatically, when the hero had a learn ability with which he could learn stimpack, the stimpack simply didn't appear in the command card until learned, however in my case it is there before I learn it (I can still learn it though).
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
Also, I am having difficulties replicating the hero skill learning. I made the learn ability according to a tutorial, but I don't know how to make the ability not appear on the hero until it is learned. In the tutorial video, it seemed to work automatically, when the hero had a learn ability with which he could learn stimpack, the stimpack simply didn't appear in the command card until learned, however in my case it is there before I learn it (I can still learn it though).
Link please?
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
Link please?
Here it is. I got it to work finally with a custom ability, no idea why it works now, although I'm starting to suspect it's because the new ability is a multi-leveld one, because another custom ability I've made since then has just a single level and has the same problem.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:42 PM   #8
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The bug with the ability is the starting letter in the id. Apparently all learnable abilities work well with starting letters such as H, like HBash
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- Dont solve problems that dont exist.
- Improve the wheel, dont reinvent it.
- Port the wheel if it doesnt exist in your environment.
- Integrate the wheel into your project.
- Make sure you can replace your wooden wheel for a rubber one if someone else invents it.
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:55 AM   #9
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I started all of my learnable abilities with "Skill": "SkillSprint", "SkillExecute" and such.
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