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Old 10-24-2006, 12:34 AM   #1
ku142004
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Default Devolution got too much problems.........

First of all, I think the limitation of Spawned Army Privates is a stupid change. You said "To get more men those men that are alive must die", but I really can't pick them out from a large group of mixture. In risk3.1 I always use them to build up the defense on tactic points and ports, but now I have to send them all out, money use a lot quicker. (I have seen many people who play devolution left no defense to the ports, but only noobs will do that in risk3.1)

The map looks pretty empty. Most countries got many entrances, and the depth of the tree area is too thin for Snipers to take them down. In risk3.1 you build up strong defense on tactic points to hold the enemy units that three times more than u. In dev this won't happen, as there is a limitation of Spawned Army Privates, u can't pull enough of them from the back to build defensive line in this huge empty area.(Unless u use money to call them out one by one, but u don't really have time to do so)

Enemy are too easy to destroy the tree and sneak across the boundary(or even can ignore the trees if leave no men near the boundary), battle begins and the winners will always be the one who got more saving because this game is designed for wealthy people. Tactic is useless as there is no way to defend position effectively (Want to build a line? No u can't, the back are now stop producing the privates and also there are so many ports for enemy to attack. In the entire version purely ground units is very difficult to stop enemy attacks from sea. (Call ships out is always the best way) snipers? Attack range is just enough to do that but hit points too low, majors? How can u make the melee units attack the ships on the sea? Tanks? Don’t forget siege attack do 200% damage to fortified armor, and I have to tell u tank A attack range is 1200 and SS Warship got 1600. Privates? Yes, huge group of them can shoot down ships, but ships got better attack range, pro players can use this characteristic to kill all your privates without losing one ship......now the important point is unless your privates are reduced to a reasonable number, enemy cannot take your port. This is happened in risk3.1, enough privates can hold enemy from sea for enough time to u to realize your port is under attack and call out your defense (normally are privates and ships around the port with sniper captains on the lands). But in dev u can not do that because u don't have enough spawn Army, so people can rush your ports quickly before u realize. What do ships cost? Gold, but u has no choice as purely ground units can not defend your ports). All u can see is war involved huge number of tanks and SS Warships at the end, the winner will be the one got more saving......

Summary
1. The boundary is lack of design (compared to 3.1)
2. Limitation of spawn Army making income and saving becomes the most important
3. Too many ports and most of them are really closed to each other, very risky if your neighbor got more gold than u and looking for lands at the same time, but u can't do anything about it without gold

I haven't got time to write down the others problem now, probably continues later.....................

(I personally play risk3.1 very often and I win 2 out of 3 full house games (FFA) in total)(Include the previous version I have played over 100 games of risk)
(I think the difference between two versions is 3.1 required tactic and experience and dev required gold only (good for newbie but not for pro))

Last edited by ku142004 : 10-24-2006 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:54 PM   #2
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Most things I agree on.

Its a very good map. I love the advanced options you had in there.
The country borders are very nice as well :D

The weak point as said
- Gold is everything, you just cant defend against some1 with more gold.
i.e. no 'strategical' ways to setup a good defense point/grid.

I hope you continue this project it has much potential
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Old 01-08-2007, 10:28 PM   #3
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I've only played this map about 5-6 times but I enjoy it alot. One of my biggest suggestions, maybe a toggle-able game mode would be to lose all your gold at the end of each turn, that way you can only have at most one turn's worth of armies. It would promote deploying your armies right away and give much more of a risk feel, giving a bit more strategy to the game.
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Old 01-13-2007, 03:22 PM   #4
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@ku:
Quote:
First of all, I think the limitation of Spawned Army Privates is a stupid change.
The reason we do this is to reduce lag. Devo being the size it is, with many more countries than revo, makes it a requirement to reduce the number of spawn units, as they will be potentially unused. If we did not do this (and it has been tested) a slower game would grind to a halt just because of the sheer number of units. The justification is that a strong risk player generally uses his spawns offensively.. if you sit around for 20 turns building up spawns (thats 20 spawns for the SMALLEST of countries) and only stuffing them on ports, you should have enough. Also consider that every country with a port either 1. spawns more than 20 or 2. has neighboring landlocked countries that don't need a port defense. So it is fair to assume you could pile atleast 30 guys on each port... giving you a good 30 seconds to notice if an SS is bombarding you from a distance.
Quote:
but now I have to send them all out, money use a lot quicker.
Personally, I've found I save better in devo, using SpawnRally to stream all my spawns to a battlefront constantly. I can carry on a war building only healers and snipers.
Quote:
(Unless u use money to call them out one by one, but u don't really have time to do so)
I would sujust using more than one barracks to build.
Quote:
n the entire version purely ground units is very difficult to stop enemy attacks from sea. (Call ships out is always the best way) snipers? Attack range is just enough to do that but hit points too low, majors? How can u make the melee units attack the ships on the sea?[more unit complaints]..
1. The unit set in devo is exactly the same as revo... so while the revo unit set may be defective, we decided to keep it the same to avoid complaints.
2. Yes, knights can attack boats when they are both in shallows.. same as in every other wc3 map [including mele].
Quote:
1. The boundary is lack of design (compared to 3.1)
The terrain in devo is admittedly different from 3.1, and it is (generally) more difficult to set up a defense point. The reason devo is the way it is is because the terrain is realistic: it was only designed by European politics over the last 1,000 years.
Quote:
(I think the difference between two versions is 3.1 required tactic and experience and dev required gold only (good for newbie but not for pro))
A valid point.. it almost sounds like your arguing about world risk :D Tactics were already sacrificed some with the move away from the three basic units. With devo, overall strategy and managment do play a larger roll, in the later stages of the game, than they used to in revo. However, it leads into a larger kind of micro, which can still make a big difference.
thanks for the comment : )
@fulla
Quote:
you just cant defend against some1 with more gold.
Sure you can. Its all about creating a better battleline (which still is a large factor in devo... its not like its an infinate open playing field.) I'm not going to go into every detail, but depending on the enemies setup (knights vs. mortars) you can change yours (fortified infantry with strong healing vs. a line + a knight rush to the front). Money makes the crucial difference only when both players are of equal skill in creating an offense/deffence, as it always has.

@DungeonM: Thats a good idea, and is on a list of possible new game types.
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Old 01-16-2007, 12:35 PM   #5
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Default devolution need more

i'm 1 on the bigest devo player i made a clan based on it , we make tournament on it but it's have a problem , when we make large army i think it's crashed and we need to restart the pc to rejoin the Bnet and that will fuck the pc down we need new ver of it without any crashed and i see if u add heros and more things with somthing to make devo best startgy game in the world i know maybe it's hard but if u get it it's will come like dota (i hate dota) that need to be pro to play it some ppl play it like a break from somthing little harder than devo so it's need more unite and maybe if u add air it will be nice :)
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:24 PM   #6
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@goble

I must have played the map 50 times now or so, I play it way to much.

I can tell you without a dought gold plays to much a part.
There is now way in hell a you can fight someone with a stronger economy than yourself.

- If you attack a strong guy, he can instantly build a retaliation force, this really has to be stopped.
- Once a guy attacks with a big force and stronger eco behind him, there is nothing, abosultely nothing you can do. He WILL win, whether gradually or immiedtly all you can do is merely slow him down, or hope someone else attacks him.

So to improve map id reommend.
- Make buildings SELL unit NOT train units and put a cooldown on them.
E.g. they can sell up to 5 rifles, but rifles have a 10 seconds cooldown.

So you can instantly buy 5, but then you have 2 wait 10 seconds for next one. After a while it replenishes.
Much like standard war3 Merc buildings

- add some form of defense capabilities, being able to upgrade your structure or something. Its all just about quantity or troops now.

============

lastly in middle europe, sorry I forgot country names theres a few badly placed, regions/trees.
Where the barracks can attack you but you cant attack them, you have to walk all the way round.

Id recommend making a few more openings between the trees.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:46 PM   #7
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- I agree that devo could use some better terraining.

- Any unit set complaints I ignore, because its exactly the same as revo, which is the point.

- A new version of devo will be coming out with the revo unit set, the world unit set, and a completly new unit set that should seriously change how the game is played.

- Sell is not acceptable , because you cannot use a rally point.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:53 AM   #8
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Hi,

I have some thoughts on the game if you dont mind.

I am part of TLTR, A Risk Clan and we always have tournie's against other Clans. Can you create for your next version a Tournie Mode option.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:20 AM   #9
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Yea a tourny optionw ould be cool - im leader of LcR which is against TLTR :D but tourny are good. generally in clan wars (and in every other game) we use Spawn life 10, fog on, bounty on, which ithink is perfect. The increased spawnlife leads to greater armies because you can siphon more men to the field. Fog on allows higher use of stregegi, as you need to react to situations faster, rather that seeing what the enemy is doing 2 mins bedore it happens. and bounty is good because it rewards good stragegi. i average between 130% and 170% of my deaths as kills, using no knights or tanks (cause they suck). Just riflemen, morters and healers. Bounty is therefore good because it rewards people who kill a lot and who fight constantly with other people, and penalises stupid people who lose loads of men for little enemy loss.

I think you should make a mode "2-player team" it is really diffacult when you are hosting a game with like 4 LcR and 8 randomers, and none of the randomers want to list when u tel them to make teams of 2. It would be much nicer if it could be chosen by the host.

And id just like to say im totally opposed to almost everything KU said; Trees lead to a greater use of speed to stop your men fighting in stupid places - which can be hard when its a 1000 man battle and you have loads of lag :P and the limitation of spawn armies is good because not only does it reduce lag, but dont you every get pissed of when u atatck russia and he has been camping for the last hour? (yes this one happened to me), he had about 900 men and i needed to spend about 300 gold just to kill some spawns - now thats gay
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