Random Defence (working title)

[Anitarf]

Introduction

This project is an offshot of the Community map project thread. The goal was to come up with a map design that makes it easy for community members to contribute to. The goal of the project is to have fun working on a map together as a community.

When discussing this we agreed that the map should be scalable. A good way to encourage contributions is to give potential contributors a sense that their work won't be wasted on a never completed project. With a scalable design, there is no set goal on the content that needs to be made for the map to be "finished". Instead, we have a playable map at every point regardless of whether and when people will have time to continue working on it.

Another way of encouraging people to contribute to the map is to make possible contributions small enough that they are very easy to make. For example, rather than expecting contributors to design whole heroes, we could let them make just single spells. To allow this, we employed a random spell system where each new spell that gets made gets added to a common pool from which spells are randomly assigned to heroes at the start of the game.

This led to some of the other design decisions. A map with randomly assigned spells probably can't have a very fine-tuned balance so making it a competitive or difficult map is probably not a good idea, so instead I opted for an easy-going cooperative game.


General Map Design

The project is a hero defence/siege type of map. It should be playable with different numbers of players, ideally this should include solo play. At the start of the game each player picks a hero which then gets assigned hero skills at random. The heroes are then faced by a constant stream of units spawned by a boss further up a corridor. The players have to fight their way against the stream of units and defeat the boss, at which point a new boss further up the path starts spawning stronger enemies.

Each hero gets four basic skills and one ultimate. Each basic skill has three levels with a level skip requirement of 3 while the ultimate can first be learned at level 6 or 8 and has a second level that can be learned slightly before the hero reaches maximum level.

Levels can scale with the number of heroes in the game. The easiest way to do this is to simply have multiple bosses, one for each hero, each spawning its own stream of units, but there are other possible variations. There could be a single boss growing stronger with more players instead, and/or the spawned units getting upgraded instead of becoming more numerous.

There may be barriers in place that only allow players to continue further up the path once a boss has been defeated, as well as enable shortcuts back to the starting shops.


Possible Contributions

There is room for a varied number of contributions: the main focus are custom spells but there is also terrain, heroes and levels. Both custom code and custom art are welcome; if a contribution has both that'd be excellent but just one of those is quite sufficient as well. The contributions need not be made specifically for this map, if you have some old stuff lying around that you feel would fit, feel free to add it; in fact, I started the map by importing two spells from my earlier spellpacks into it.

When working on a map together, even with a design as loose as this, there are some limitations on how and what contributions are made. They are discussed in more detail below.

Terrain There is a limit to how many tiles can be imported into a map (around 15) as well as the number of standard cliffs that can be used (just 2). Terrainers should discuss their options and try to reach a consensus on which tiles to use. To get varied levels, we'd want to use as many tilesets as we can, but at 5 tilesets we are already limited to only 3 tiles from each set, so the sets and the tiles should be chosen carefully. Levels This is probably the least scalable part of the game as the map can't be too long. Limiting ourselves to 10 levels sounds like a good number. New levels therefore can't be added freely but should instead be planned and discussed in more detail here. Spells The system put in place for randomly assigning spells is capable of preventing hotkey and orderstring conflicts, so thise values can be chosen freely when making the spell. The problem are WC3's buff spells, since custom spells based on the same buff spell will not stack even if they use different buffs. When possible, aura-based triggered buffs should be used to avoid using up the limited amount of buff spells needlessly. Artwork The 8MB map filesize limit is pretty high, but we should still try to keep the file size of our imports low when choosing/making them. If we ever run out of space, we'll just have to start cutting out stuff that is too big, so it's best to just not include such stuff in the first place.

Map File
Whenever a new version of the map is posted by a contributor, I will attach it here. However, before you take the map to make your own contributions, check the last couple of posts in the thread to see if a newer version has already been posted that I have not yet had the time to attach here.

[Balnnazar]

Sounds interesting.
I think I could help with the terraining, I used to make lots of "creative mode" terrain maps were I'd try to fit as many themes/biomes as possible.
I could also try to help with the rest.

[HerrStanev]

Quick question, how will attacks be detected? I have a few ideas for passive procs (i.e. imagine Critical Strike based on stats) but I'm not sure how to approach this best...

On a side note, you should include Glacial Wall as a spell, too. :)

[Anitarf]

Originally Posted by Balnnazar

Sounds interesting.
I think I could help with the terraining, I used to make lots of "creative mode" terrain maps were I'd try to fit as many themes/biomes as possible.
I could also try to help with the rest.

That'd be great.

The terrains depend a bit on the levels since ideally the two should match thematically. It would be nice if the levels themselves had a sensible order, such that stronger-looking spawnies appear in later, stronger levels. If the order of the levels is fixed like that, this also fixes the order of terrains. You can still probably start working on something if you'd like, it's not impossible to copy&paste a segment of terrain to a different position at a later time.

In terms of levels, I've had a few ideas. Here they are in what I think is an appropriate order:

Table:

boss

The terrains do not need to match the boss all the way; the necromancer could be spawning skeletons from a graveyard but that doesn't have to cover the whole corridor for that level, just the end where the boss is. The skeletons could then be attacking through a different terrain, like a village, for example. We can also come up with levels that match a terrain instead of the other way around, so if you have a cool terrain idea by all means try it out and we'll figure out what to put in it later.

Originally Posted by HerrStanev

Quick question, how will attacks be detected? I have a few ideas for passive procs (i.e. imagine Critical Strike based on stats) but I'm not sure how to approach this best...

My typical approach is to just deal all my spell damage through xedamage and detect that. Of course, if someone contributes an object editor or GUI spell, that approach flies out the window. If that happens, we can always resort to attack-buff-based detection.

On a side note, you should include Glacial Wall as a spell, too. :)

I was thinking about it because it is a pretty cool spell, but it didn't seem like it'd be that useful against spawnies. Maybe I'll include it anyway, I can always make it also deal a bit of damage and even if not, it could have potential in some boss situations.

[Balnnazar]

Well, I made a "Spider Forest" (never made one before) for the first course, would something like this work?
It's a WIP, as you can see the top half is pretty much empty, and I was trying all the places were the cobwebs could be placed.
I need honest opinions on this.

[Anitarf]

The main issue I have with that terrain is that you have already used up 7 tiles and both cliffs. There isn't really much left for other terrains. A forest terrain shouldn't use cliffs at all since you can use trees to confine the path. In terms of tiles, see if you can bring them down to 4 or even just 3.

It would also seem appropriate if some trees were in the path, so you get clearings as well as more narrow paths between the trees. The cobwebs seem a bit large, the texture is just not detailed enough for that size so they feel out of place.

I also forgot to mention (or maybe I did say something in the old thread, but not here), a level is expected to be only one section long, the reason I made spiders travel two sections in the first map was because I was testing the waypoint system. The first section is not that diverse so we could just scrap that and keep the second section. The starting point can always be moved.

[Balnnazar]

Originally Posted by Anitarf

The main issue I have with that terrain is that you have already used up 7 tiles and both cliffs. There isn't really much left for other terrains. A forest terrain shouldn't use cliffs at all since you can use trees to confine the path. In terms of tiles, see if you can bring them down to 4 or even just 3.

It would also seem appropriate if some trees were in the path, so you get clearings as well as more narrow paths between the trees. The cobwebs seem a bit large, the texture is just not detailed enough for that size so they feel out of place.

I also forgot to mention (or maybe I did say something in the old thread, but not here), a level is expected to be only one section long, the reason I made spiders travel two sections in the first map was because I was testing the waypoint system. The first section is not that diverse so we could just scrap that and keep the second section. The starting point can always be moved.

Alright, I separated both areas (made some temp triggers to move around), and decided to turn the second section into a cave (still wip, I pretty much just cheated the cliffs and removed the trees) and removed some unused stuff.

Also, I was thinking of this for the level transitions:
From forest (you could add a new wave for it, trolls or gnolls) to the caves (an ex-goblin mine, the broodmother appeared and the blew up the hole to their base)[spiders], to a riverside/seaside goblin camp/outpost (the cave would have a hole or something that lead near/straight into it)[goblins], to the river/coast (the goblins would have throw toxic wastes to the waters, enraging the murlocs and/or the goblins blew up the exit door before dying, forcing the player to go down that road?)[murlocs], to a graveyard (at the end of the river/coast there is a crumbled wall leading to this area?)[undead] and then the Mage's Citadel/Tower/Base. (the graveyard was inside/beside it)[mages]

This would let us reuse most of the tiles and would give a more or less logical explaination of Why the player is going thru all this.

Just throwing ideas.

[Kyrbi0]

Originally Posted by Balnazzar

Also, I was thinking of this for the level transitions:
From forest (you could add a new wave for it, trolls or gnolls) to the caves (an ex-goblin mine, the broodmother appeared and the blew up the hole to their base)[spiders], to a riverside/seaside goblin camp/outpost (the cave would have a hole or something that lead near/straight into it)[goblins], to the river/coast (the goblins would have throw toxic wastes to the waters, enraging the murlocs and/or the goblins blew up the exit door before dying, forcing the player to go down that road?)[murlocs], to a graveyard (at the end of the river/coast there is a crumbled wall leading to this area?)[undead] and then the Mage's Citadel/Tower/Base. (the graveyard was inside/beside it)[mages]

I like the idea of it being one big "story" like that, actually.

[Balnnazar]

I made a crude wip of the 3 area.
The idea would be, you get to the east end and either, the bridge blows up when you get there, or it blows up after you kill the enginners.
Either way, part of the wall (The ugly actual wall is a placeholder) will blow up and the player will walk alongside the coast, to enter the next area.

I added some power circles so that it's easier to see where is the entrance/exit of each area.

[HerrStanev]

This really starts to look like a dungeon, though. But I like the idea. With some polishing and models it might actually look pretty.
Can't seem to understand the logic behind the levels. Does it move from top to bottom or the other way around?

[Balnnazar]

Originally Posted by HerrStanev

This really starts to look like a dungeon, though. But I like the idea. With some polishing and models it might actually look pretty.
Can't seem to understand the logic behind the levels. Does it move from top to bottom or the other way around?

It's (mostly) linear: You start at the top, and have to go to the end of the corridor to continue to the next section.
I had to change the Third section's entrance (made it face the coast instead of being on the side, like the other entrances.) because otherwise it'd make no sense (a cave/mine parallel to the coast < a cave/mine coming from a cliff facing the coast).
But that's more visual/cosmetic that anything else.

[Anitarf]

Originally Posted by Balnnazar

Also, I was thinking of this for the level transitions:
From forest (you could add a new wave for it, trolls or gnolls) to the caves (an ex-goblin mine, the broodmother appeared and the blew up the hole to their base)[spiders], to a riverside/seaside goblin camp/outpost (the cave would have a hole or something that lead near/straight into it)[goblins], to the river/coast (the goblins would have throw toxic wastes to the waters, enraging the murlocs and/or the goblins blew up the exit door before dying, forcing the player to go down that road?)[murlocs], to a graveyard (at the end of the river/coast there is a crumbled wall leading to this area?)[undead] and then the Mage's Citadel/Tower/Base. (the graveyard was inside/beside it)[mages]

Yeah. The exact order of the terrain types is still up in the air since the levels are not yet fixed, but in general this is what I had in mind.

I can't really think of a level to fit before the spiders though, trolls/gnolls are visually way stronger. I think the spiders will have to be the first level.

Originally Posted by HerrStanev

Can't seem to understand the logic behind the levels. Does it move from top to bottom or the other way around?

The idea was to make the path like a winding snake so that it fills up the map. In the initial map, there was room for 3 levels, one at the top going to the right, then one in the middle going back to the left and another one at the bottom going right again. The map size would then be doubled in both directions so that there'd be enough room for all levels. The size would be increased in such a way that the starting point ends up in the middle of the map; the idea here is that we can add shortcuts back to the starting shops once later levels are cleared.

For example, if the first level is the spiders and the second level is the goblins, once the goblin bosses are defeated you could get access to a goblin item shop and, because the end of the second level is right below the start of the first level, a shortcut could open to the starting tavern as well so you have the shop and the fountain conveniently close. A further shortcut could open to this area from the side once the path finds its way there.

[Balnnazar]

Originally Posted by Anitarf

-snip-

Oh, now I see.

Well, I'll have to change the forest back to a spider den and I guess I could redesing the cave into a mining facility, then I can simply turn the coast area into the murloc's zone, (though, I'll have to move the third row's entrance to the Right so that this section can be connected to future ones.).

If I'm not wrong, you want each corner of the map to have 3 sections, right?

[Anitarf]

Originally Posted by Balnnazar

If I'm not wrong, you want each corner of the map to have 3 sections, right?

Something like that. I could only fit 3 sections in the small starting map because the edge of the map is unplayable; a map with double height could contain 7 sections, not just 6. With double width, that gives us 14 sections, which leaves plenty of room for levels that take up two sections, either in width or in length, although for a typical level a single section should be sufficient. The extra room is mainly there to facilitate more irregular level shapes, although I've already made single sections wide enough to allow for a more winding path.

I've drawn a quick image of what the map's layout could be like; obviously, there's some space left over, so the levels need not be so cramped on the grid as they are in that image. For example, if the fourth and fifth segments were a single longer level, that'd give the players a new shop and a shortcut to previous buildings at the start of the 3rd, 6th and 9th levels, which seems like a nice, even distribution (that is the reason why I rotated the segments in the third quadrant, otherwise the third shortcut would come too soon).

[Rao Dao Zao]

Hmm, and with a layout like that there is good space to cater for diverse terrains -- coastal areas at the bottom, a mountain peak to climb to a snowy/fiery volcano finale...