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Old 11-27-2009, 02:40 PM   #1
Fasolace
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Default (10) Mercenaries

Mercenaries (AoS)


Introduction
Choose one of the mercenaries that will take a part in a battle full of magic and mayhem.
The map features:
- A group of playable characteristic heroes.
- Elemental strengths and weaknesses.
- Create your own attribute table for your hero.
- Ability and item classes.
- A never before seen Attribute system.
- An easter egg!


Features

Affinities
This is the main feature of the map. Each hero has his attack and defense based on an affinity. There are five affinities; Earth, Water, Fire, Light and Dark.
These five form two circles; the Outer Circle and Inner Circle.
Click image for larger version

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Basically, the Nature affinity is the 3 elemental affinities.
Not only is the heros attack and defense based on an affinity, but also the abilities.

Abilities & Attributes
The abilities in this map is as you read above based on an affinity. But there is actually more than just that. Instead of levels, the abilities can be upgraded by increasing your stats. And instead of using the hero ability menu for new abilities, it is now used to collect attribute points.

The most important part of the abilities is their class.
There are 3 ability classes: Physical, Magical and Special.
Each hero has at least 1 of each ability classes.
Physical abilities are in most cases melee ranged and is increased by
Courage (Strength).
Magical abilities are increased by Wisdom (Intelligence).
Special abilities cannot like the other two classes be upgraded by stats, instead their effect is constant and cannot be changed. These abilities are functioned to not deal damage, but instead work as status problems which effects are useful from game start til game end.

Below is the complete Attribute table each hero has.

Courage (Strength)
- Increases maximum Health capacity by 7 for each point.
- Increases the effect of Physical abilities for each point.
Power (Agility)
- Increases Offense by 1 for every 2 points.
- Increases Defense by 1 for every 3 points.
Wisdom (Intelligence)
- Increases maximum Mana capacity by 1 for each point.
- Increases the effect of Magical abilities for each point.

As you can see there is no primary attribute in this map, now no attribute will be overestimated.


The Market
The Market is a hostile area and is the center of all items in the map.

There are 4 units in the market.
Jeweler - Sells gems, which are the most basic of all items in the map and stacks attributes.
Alchemist - Sells potions and herbs of different kinds.
Enchanter - Does many different things. Can increase the emrcenarys attributes permanently, sell scrolls that boost stats in combat and so on.
Merchant - The merchant is the most expensive of all in the market. He sells powerful artifacts that requires combinations of gems to be bought.

================================================

Map Team & Progress
I am working on this map alone and I plan to finish it alone.
The map is about 75% done.

Things to do:
- Create the remaining items.
- Finish and polish the heroes.

===============================================

A little preview of the terrain:
Click image for larger version

Name:	TerrainOverview.gif
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Size:	418.4 KB
ID:	47334

Last edited by Fasolace : 01-09-2010 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Added number of players to the title since it seems to be a rule.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:29 AM   #2
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50% seems a huge amount to penalize or boost some heroes against each other. It really might end up feeling hopeless for a player with a hero of one affinity pitted against a hero of another affinity that you are weak against. Or, alternatively, it might be ridiculously each to kill a hero that you are strong against. Neither or these things are conducive to a fun map.

Go look up the old Elemental Wars project that Dusk and Erwt were working on a long time ago if you want to see a similar system that might have worked out (which had 5 elements, as I recall). The primary differences there were that heroes had a different element for attack and defense, as well as having two spells of each type, instead of all four being of a single type. This made it far more difficult for a hero to be completely outmatched by another hero just because it got the bad end of a rock/paper/scissors lineup.

Just some thoughts.
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:37 AM   #3
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So if there are 3 hero types and you assume even distribution of the heroes, your hero will be hugely disadvantaged 1/3 of the time, hugely advantaged 1/3 of the time, and equal 1/3 of the time. This means that 2/3 of all fights will be a blowout (assuming a 1v1 fight).

I'm not going to make a judgement having never played your map, but at their face these values seem very extreme. You might try toning them down to 25% bonuses and adjusting them from there. I mention this because it's the kind of thing that turns off new players trying out a map. A new player may not see the grand scheme of team vs. team balance and the value of teamwork, so if they get destroyed too quickly they may just quit. I'm not saying that you HAVE to cater to the average Battle.net players, but in order for a map to get a player base going it's sometimes more important for a map to appear balanced that to actually be balanced.

Again, I've never played your map, so this advice is just from the abstract.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade987
50% seems a huge amount to penalize or boost some heroes against each other. It really might end up feeling hopeless for a player with a hero of one affinity pitted against a hero of another affinity that you are weak against. Or, alternatively, it might be ridiculously each to kill a hero that you are strong against. Neither or these things are conducive to a fun map.

Go look up the old Elemental Wars project that Dusk and Erwt were working on a long time ago if you want to see a similar system that might have worked out (which had 5 elements, as I recall). The primary differences there were that heroes had a different element for attack and defense, as well as having two spells of each type, instead of all four being of a single type. This made it far more difficult for a hero to be completely outmatched by another hero just because it got the bad end of a rock/paper/scissors lineup.

Just some thoughts.

You are correct. Judging from yesterdays test, the 50% advantage is to huge for the low amounts of stastics the map uses. Im going to lower it to 75% disadvantage and 125% advantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluff
So if there are 3 hero types and you assume even distribution of the heroes, your hero will be hugely disadvantaged 1/3 of the time, hugely advantaged 1/3 of the time, and equal 1/3 of the time. This means that 2/3 of all fights will be a blowout (assuming a 1v1 fight).

The affinity system is very wide, a hero that has Light Offense can also have Dark Defense depending on their theme. Also, just becuase a hero has a certain Offense and Defense system affinity, his abilities can still be Anima based, also this, depending on the heros theme.
So basically, there are far more than 3 hero types.
Take Saleos which is in 2 of the screenshots, his attack is Dark based becuase of his evil polearm, and his Defense is Anima becuase of his animal theme. He also has a mix of Dark and Anima abilities.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:37 PM   #5
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Ok, I understand better now. It seems it will make it necessary for players to use their full range of abilities over the course of a game to counter each of the defense types they encounter.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:35 AM   #6
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This looks very interesting! Awaiting its release.

Also, are all the heroes animal based? Its pretty cool :D
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:28 PM   #7
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Looks very intersting.

Also, do you have all abilities from the start or not?
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123456
This looks very interesting! Awaiting its release.

Also, are all the heroes animal based? Its pretty cool :D

No, only some have animal themes. But all heroes will have a very creative theme, I can promise that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon
Looks very intersting.

Also, do you have all abilities from the start or not?

No, you can read about how you get the abilities in one of the hidden information buttons.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:26 AM   #9
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Looks and sounds great! But ( IMO ) you need to add lots of custom doodads ( tree, rocks, brush, ect ). It already looks great, but seeing the same doodads used in every map over and over again makes them get pretty boring . Every thing else looks great thou, keep up the good work.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raj91
Looks and sounds great! But ( IMO ) you need to add lots of custom doodads ( tree, rocks, brush, ect ). It already looks great, but seeing the same doodads used in every map over and over again makes them get pretty boring . Every thing else looks great thou, keep up the good work.

Ask this, how long does the terrain stay interesting y'know? The terrain can be nice but it's seen as more of a safety net, in case new players are a bit shifty on what the map might be. The terrain provides a good impression and there is no terrain that will never get boring since, it never changes! It's always the same! It does suck, but tis the way the cookie crumbles. [The terrain is quite nice, the only thing I can complain about is that it seems flat and seems to lack pretty environment doodads and props(I don't mean imported models, just the doodads in general]

---------------------------------

Definitely cool and like Shade said, there was a previous map that played around with more variety than 3 types. It is a bit restrictive since it's just 3! In the Elemental map Dusk and Ewrt were working on, there were defensive and offensive versions of 5 elements that heroes had. They usually specialized in one element or diversified, it offered up more options and such.

However, you do sound confident and if you do believe a great deal in your map. If you think 3 is sufficient, then it must be if you've worked on the map this much and haven't changed it! I've nothing but respect for you atm sir, I look forward to seeing how your map plays :p.

----------------------------------

... that was my last cookie...

lol
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Last edited by Agrias : 12-04-2009 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrias
Ask this, how long does the terrain stay interesting y'know? The terrain can be nice but it's seen as more of a safety net, in case new players are a bit shifty on what the map might be. The terrain provides a good impression and there is no terrain that will never get boring since, it never changes! It's always the same! It does suck, but tis the way the cookie crumbles.

Not as long as there is new models being made every day and map makers willing to use them. By the time a new doodad gets boring, there will be a hundred more to choose from.

Last edited by Raj91 : 12-04-2009 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raj91
Looks and sounds great! But ( IMO ) you need to add lots of custom doodads ( tree, rocks, brush, ect ). It already looks great, but seeing the same doodads used in every map over and over again makes them get pretty boring . Every thing else looks great thou, keep up the good work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrias
Ask this, how long does the terrain stay interesting y'know? The terrain can be nice but it's seen as more of a safety net, in case new players are a bit shifty on what the map might be. The terrain provides a good impression and there is no terrain that will never get boring since, it never changes! It's always the same! It does suck, but tis the way the cookie crumbles. [The terrain is quite nice, the only thing I can complain about is that it seems flat and seems to lack pretty environment doodads and props(I don't mean imported models, just the doodads in general]

Now that you say it, some more details can be added indeed. The map isn't supposed to be focusing on pretty terrain, but a while ago I had some thoughts of changing the terrain type completely when major new versions are released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrias
Definitely cool and like Shade said, there was a previous map that played around with more variety than 3 types. It is a bit restrictive since it's just 3! In the Elemental map Dusk and Ewrt were working on, there were defensive and offensive versions of 5 elements that heroes had. They usually specialized in one element or diversified, it offered up more options and such.

However, you do sound confident and if you do believe a great deal in your map. If you think 3 is sufficient, then it must be if you've worked on the map this much and haven't changed it! I've nothing but respect for you atm sir, I look forward to seeing how your map plays :p.

I've made alot of changes since I posted this I just haven't had time to update it yet. And each update would be kind of pointless since I constantly change and add new things.
I will take your suggestion seriously about adding more elements. Im just afraid it's going to be really hard to learn all the heroes later on.

I will edit the post with all the new updates and changes this weekend, and will also release information about the current heroes.

EDIT: Looks like I didn't have enough time to update it this weekend, sorry for the false information. In any case, the map is currently undergoing alot of changes and the updated presentation might be delayed.

Last edited by Fasolace : 12-06-2009 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raj91
Not as long as there is new models being made every day and map makers willing to use them. By the time a new doodad gets boring, there will be a hundred more to choose from.

I don't know if there are that many doodads.. But will Faso make that many versions with that many variations in doodads? It'd just get annoying or the changes would be too subtle to notice. (Unless he's spectacularly amazing! O JEEZ!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't mean that you had to focus on the pretty terrain, I just said it's less important than everything else. It's just something on the side to keep the person interested so they can get into the actual nitty gritty of the game, playing the heroes. looks great though, so no worries! :3

Too bad you couldn't update the stuff though... :[
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrias
I don't know if there are that many doodads.. But will Faso make that many versions with that many variations in doodads? It'd just get annoying or the changes would be too subtle to notice. (Unless he's spectacularly amazing! O JEEZ!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't mean that you had to focus on the pretty terrain, I just said it's less important than everything else. It's just something on the side to keep the person interested so they can get into the actual nitty gritty of the game, playing the heroes. looks great though, so no worries! :3

Too bad you couldn't update the stuff though... :[

I can send an updated screenshot of the new terrain when I get home from school today. If you've played the map Megalith it's very similar to that terrain.
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