(3) SKrumble '08

[SeruK]

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featuring General Frank's Rumble Pack.
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Genre: Footman Wars/Rumble
Players: 3
Tileset: Icecrown Citadel
Size: Tiny 32x32 (32x32)
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An updated version of my contest entry; SKrumble is pretty much in a genre of it's own. Inspired by maps like Abyssium and blending such gameplay elements with those of Footman Frenzy, action-aimed spawn system, damage/health ratio and more - you're in for a crazy ride.
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Stuff:
*Choose one of 3 races: Blood Elves, Chaos Orcs or Dragon Spawns.
*Capture the Magical Crystals for increased income.
*Outmaneuver your enemies with Tactics.
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Changelog:
1.5 Final
*First release.
1.6 Final
*Fixed typo in Phase Message.
*Buffed Blood Elves
*Fixed Mounted Units foodcost bug
*Fixed Crystal bug on Defeat
*Gave Peons the Personal Phaser Ability
*Fixed Mounted Units collision size
*Gave Peons mana -_-
1.7
*Added Übertech
*Added Siege Units
*Added Upgrades
1.7 Bugfix
*Fixed Swordsman Burning Oil bug
*Fixed Elder Lumber Cost bug
*Fixed Crossbowmen Sprint bugs/Manapool
*Removed Berserker and Felhound Raider's faulty mana
*Fixed Lumber Income bug
1.7 Bugfix2
*Removed Swordsmen and Crusaders' faulty mana
*Fixed Spiked Barricades bug
*Buffed Spiked Barricades (Base 10 = 30 Inc 20 = 40)
1.8 Alpha
*Fixed tooltip for Peons
*Removed faulty Personal Phaser for Crusaders
*Updated race tooltips
*Changed fog and wind
*Changed loading screen text (instructions)
*200 gold is now awarded to players after 6 seconds to fasten start
1.8 Alpha Bugfix
*Fixed Spiked Barricades
1.8 Alpha Bugfix2
*Fixed Waygates spawning at wrong start location(?)
*Fixed Waygates appearing later for some players
*Waygates are now removed if slot is unused
*Fixed minor tooltip errors
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Screenshots:



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Dawnlawd:
SKrumble08 1.7.w3x
SKrumble08 1.7 Bugfix.w3x
SKrumble08 1.7 Bugfix2.w3x
SKrumble08 1.8 Alpha.w3x
SKrumble08 1.8 Alpha BF.w3x
SKrumble08 1.8 Alpha BF2.w3x
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[ragingspeedhorn]

Cool map, but the part with it being in a "genre of its own" I don't really agree with. It is more or less just a different version of Footmen Wars, a lot different, but that is pretty much what it is.

[SeruK]

Originally Posted by ragingspeedhorn

Cool map, but the part with it being in a "genre of its own" I don't really agree with. It is more or less just a different version of Footmen Wars, a lot different, but that is pretty much what it is.

lol, true. Didn't really strike me.

[darkwulfv]

I played this... I probably never will again. Sorry =(

Here's what I found:
(I was the dragon race)

• My god. That wind and snow effect made seeing anything impossible. I couldn't tell whose units were whose.
• Why did the Draconic melee units have "Burning Oil"??
• I had no idea that there were crystals, or that I was supposed to be trying to take them. So when one of my enemies took both of them, he instantly got 3x the income of all of us and was able to make huge armies to beat us. You'd think he'd won, but enemy #3 hadn't done anything all game and had huge amounts of gold, so he just made a massive army, cleaned out the crystals while enemy #2 was trying to kill my base, and then ate both of us alive with 3-4 sets of units every income.
• We never got any lumber, ever. And if we're only getting 2 lumber per phase, how was I supposed to get the 80 required for my siege unit? (It was unfair; I couldn't make him but my enemies (chaos orcs) could.
• Riders, while having counters, were definitely the strongest units and were able to rip a good sized chunk out of an army before finally dying.
• How the heck did you get upgrades?
• The "personal phaser" was kind of useless, since it was an autocast ability... and so is repair. I can't think of a decent solution (aside from triggering it), but peons got obliterated anyways, regardless of having a "personal phaser" or not.
• Once an army attacked you, you were likely going to die. Especially if the attacker had both crystals and about 15 units. I didn't see any possibly way of making a comeback.

The concept was okay, the execution was not.
I mean, you didn't even have any quests to explain anything to us!
General Frank's models are very nice, but the size of the units, combined with the heavy fog and snow, made actually seeing them really hard.

[Shadow_killer]

I just tried this map in singelplayer.

- Theres no win condition when you destroy the other players (at least in singelplayer)
- Second time i tried the map i dident get wood when it said i would
- Berserker and Felhound Raider have mana why?
- The Crossbow man don't reg mana so why have a CD on their sprint ability? And the tool tip stated that the sprint would last 60 seconds it lasted like 5 seconds.
- The catapults seemed a bit overpowered
- Why do i have to wait 30 seconds in the beginning to get gold? Why not start with at least 150 gold.
- Why cant the dragon race get upgrades?

And then everything darkwulf said.

[darkwulfv]

Why would you even really need sprint to begin with? The map is 32x32. It takes like 7 seconds for a unit to get from point A to point B.

- The catapults seemed a bit overpowered

That's because they were. Big siege damage with burning oil? Tore my base apart. I almost didn't survive.

[Shadow_killer]

If you micro really good you could just make a couple of crossbow units and the activate sprint then attack, run back and repeat until all his units are dead.

When i meant that the catapults were OP was because they got 1150 in range meaning that if the orcs attacked base their catapults could attack the base while his units occupied the enemies units.

And in theory wont 3 players really mess up everything? If i attack a players base the last player will attack my base meaning that he will win.

[Captain Griffen]

Seruk, did you fix the bug where Elves needed lumber to repair their base?

[darkwulfv]

When i meant that the catapults were OP was because they got 1150 in range meaning that if the orcs attacked base their catapults could attack the base while his units occupied the enemies units.

Well that's exactly what happened to me as well. I had to kill all the orc units before I could reach their catapult w/o dying.

And in theory wont 3 players really mess up everything? If i attack a players base the last player will attack my base meaning that he will win.

That happened too, and with a low income it was hard to make an army to fight and an army to defend. It's not like in footies were getting gold is easy peasy.

[Captain Griffen]

3 intelligent players is the optimum for any map like this. If one gains the upper hand, the other two ally against him, then betray each other, etc.

[darkwulfv]

You'd think that would work (it probably would), but there's just some solid issues in here (such as the imbalance crystals can cause) that kind of throw that sort of thing off.

Although I'd love to be a participant in a strategy like that.

[ragingspeedhorn]

It is easy to get the crystals back. If you are good at micro you can easily attack and evade.

The game needs some tweaking here and there but all in all this is really fun. I actually disagree on most of darkwulfv's points.

What this needs is for the bases to be better able to defend themselves when emergenzys appear. What about the base gaining some extra powers if you have no units on the map? So it can defend itself in case of a supperior attack.

[darkwulfv]

I was unable to ever get the crystals back. Ever. I sent waves of attackers there, but since the enemy had a buffed income he would just send double forces back and eliminate my attackers. I had no trouble attacking and defending; I was defending nearly the entire game, so attacking wasn't much of an option.

And yes, a way for the base to defend itself would be golden as well.

[ragingspeedhorn]

When he can send "hordes of enemies" you need to figure out his tactic and counter it, or simply just try to get the third opponent with you on a attack, he goes for his base and you go for crystals or vice-versa.

If it is 1v1 then you are just the lesser player and have lost. I think there should be more factors than just the crystals though. Besides from that there should also be a money max.

[SeruK]

Awesome, I thought this was going to pass unnoticed. Thanks a lot guys! :)
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I'll begin with Shadow_killer.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

I just tried this map in singelplayer.

Eek! Not the optimal experience.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

Theres no win condition when you destroy the other players (at least in singelplayer)

Me being lazy. :P I don't think I'm going to add one either -- not for '08 at least -- because I like the thought of people being able to banter afterwards.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

Second time i tried the map i dident get wood when it said i would

Okay? That shouldn't be possible. What did you do exactly?

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

Berserker and Felhound Raider have mana why?

Whoops! They had abilities in previous versions. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

The Crossbow man don't reg mana so why have a CD on their sprint ability? And the tool tip stated that the sprint would last 60 seconds it lasted like 5 seconds.

A, Good point. It wasn't supposed to cost their whole manapool, fixed.
B, That's <APsa,Dur1> failing me for whatever reason. It actually lasts 3 seconds but the tooltip thinks it has the standard duration of 60. :S Will just have to type it in manually.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

The catapults seemed a bit overpowered

Hmm... no I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

Why do i have to wait 30 seconds in the beginning to get gold? Why not start with at least 150 gold.

So that the slow/new players can have a chance to read through the descriptions without getting rushed and slaughtered.

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

Why cant the dragon race get upgrades?

Since I actually answered darkwulf's questions first, I'll quote myself:

Originally Posted by SeruK

A-ha! I forgot to add upgrades to the Matriarch.

Fixed. :)

I do appreciate you looking it over, but it'd be great if you'd try it online with some friends sometime rather than in singleplayer. Anywhoo...

Originally Posted by Shadow_killer

And then everything darkwulf said.

Indeed-o.
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darkwulfv, you're up!

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

I played this... I probably never will again. Sorry =(

Your loss. <:

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

My god. That wind and snow effect made seeing anything impossible. I couldn't tell whose units were whose.

I haven't had any problem with this myself and neither has any other testers... I know the effects are rather silly, but it's not really something I prioritize ATM. More about this later.

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

Why did the Draconic melee units have "Burning Oil"??

Beats me. Thanks.

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

I had no idea that there were crystals, or that I was supposed to be trying to take them. So when one of my enemies took both of them, he instantly got 3x the income of all of us and was able to make huge armies to beat us. You'd think he'd won, but enemy #3 hadn't done anything all game and had huge amounts of gold, so he just made a massive army, cleaned out the crystals while enemy #2 was trying to kill my base, and then ate both of us alive with 3-4 sets of units every income.

I did mention it in the thread. :( Yeah, I know I've been lazy with the whole not telling people what to do bit. Terribly lazy even. The only excuse I have for being slothful is that this is (as stated) a prototype for a much larger system.

Really though, the mate overpowering you in the end is actually you running into the core of the gameplay. The map is all about tactics, and that is just what he did, outmaneuvered you both with superior tactics, yes?

I do realize the crystals should be spread rather than together. Again I point at Morpheus and hides in the bushes.

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

We never got any lumber, ever. And if we're only getting 2 lumber per phase, how was I supposed to get the 80 required for my siege unit? (It was unfair; I couldn't make him but my enemies (chaos orcs) could.

YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT
Nah, the whole lumber idea was implemented to add some level of strategy with the Übertech. The Elder costing lumber however was just a bug. :>

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

Riders, while having counters, were definitely the strongest units and were able to rip a good sized chunk out of an army before finally dying.

Hmm. The general idea is that mounted units are the elites, they do cost shitloads AND every time I've played a squad or two of melee units take them down (far too) easily. Anyone else experienced this?

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

How the heck did you get upgrades?

Err... you buy them? And then the Übertech for lumber? Is this more foul buggery or? :(
A-ha! I forgot to add upgrades to the Matriarch.

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

The "personal phaser" was kind of useless, since it was an autocast ability... and so is repair. I can't think of a decent solution (aside from triggering it), but peons got obliterated anyways, regardless of having a "personal phaser" or not.

Ack! Didn't think of that. But there really isn't any time in the game where you'd like auto-repair to be on.

You reckon I should replace the phaser with, say, a cloaking device and add some sufficient counter or maybe just a sprint ability or something?

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

Once an army attacked you, you were likely going to die. Especially if the attacker had both crystals and about 15 units. I didn't see any possibly way of making a comeback.

*points at Spiked Barricades*

Originally Posted by darkwulfv

The concept was okay, the execution was not.
I mean, you didn't even have any quests to explain anything to us! General Frank's models are very nice, but the size of the units, combined with the heavy fog and snow, made actually seeing them really hard

This is pretty much the core problem of the map: the execution. For the third time the only excuse I have is that this the prototype; the alpha; the bug-run. My main point of releasing this for testing is to bring up bugs and get pointers for the real deal.

About the fog and snow... while their sole existence is aesthetic this really seems more like a problem on your end as I certainly has not had problem with it. I thought I would have but I haven't.

To finish up you did manage to pick the race I've rushed the most, which is good for me since it's obviously brought out some nasty bugs in the open but for you I guess I'll have to pardon for the ruined game. :P
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Edit:

Originally Posted by Captain Griffen

Seruk, did you fix the bug where Elves needed lumber to repair their base?

Yup.
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Righto, there you go. I'm going to upload 1.7 Bugfix right now. Everyone and anyone feel free to test it.
As for the additional comments/discussion I'll look them over and see if there's something I can add.