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-   -   (1) When the Freedom Slips Away (http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=82497)

Rao Dao Zao 04-22-2006 07:01 PM

(1) When the Freedom Slips Away
 
1 Attachment(s)
After being almost two years in the making, it has finally arrived.

A small expedition arrives on a tiny island, in search of land to conquer. They're soon caught between two warring towns; a mad Lord wanting to take over the world, and another trying to stop him...

But there are forces at work here that are beyond any of them - and nothing is at all what it seems.

A Clan WCM map by Rao Dao Zao.

Author's note: Any comments concerning the music should be put off until the entire map has been observed and the links between lyrics and story pondered.

Update 3: Various bug-fixes and minor modifications.

Screenshots:
http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=82259

WC3C Download
Official Download

Tim. 04-22-2006 11:25 PM

I'll upload this for you if it is approved.

I look forward to reviewing it, let's hope this one meets the standards! ^_^

Blade.dk 04-27-2006 12:26 PM

I played it before, but suddenly I was killed by creeps while I was in a cinematic and could do nothing. That's a bug that should be fixed, ideally all units that are not acting in the cinematic should be paused during a cinematic, imo.

Besides that, it looks great, I will play it again and hopefully finish, and then write a review.

Dorelian 04-27-2006 01:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I'm sorry for having to be the one to crush your hopes again, but TIM TOLD ME TO REVIEW THIS!

Personally, I'm not too fond on one player maps to start with, but I let that aside and really wanted to play this one to be able to write an honest review. And I did, here's how it went:

- Opening scene. I thought to myself "hey, that's some nice opening music." I didn't like the actual scene because I could see the edge of the map, and that doesn't make a water scene pretty at all.

- The music wouldn't stop. I thought to myself "Dear God, I know I've been a bad boy, but PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". I frantically tried ctrl + m, alt + m, turning the music off from the options, nothing worked. It was really killing my brain cells, so I had to turn the entire sound off.

- Lord Kirby. Honestly, what the hell? Kirby is the worst name you could've chosen for a lord. (>'.'> <( )> <'.'<) ^'.'<) <( )^ (>'.'^ <('.')> ^('.')> <('.')^ <('.')> v('.')^ v('.')> ^('.')v <('.')^ ^( )^ ^( )> (>'.'> (>'.'> <( )> REALLY!!!!

- This was probably intentional, but I didn't find it one bit funny/interesting/nice/innovative. I received the "defend your base" quest. All nice and exciting, I thought it was finally starting to get interesting. No such luck. My units got teleported into the water, I quickly built defense towers, the attackers went straight by them, detonating themselves upon reaching the main building I had to protect. At this point I was pissed and alt-tabbed for 2 minutes. Upon returning to the game, I had lost. Those damn kamikaze terrorists.

By the way, I hope no one will mind, I saw in your last map that you are fond on UT2K4 sounds. I decided to make you a surprise and post my decision in MP3 format. Enjoy! :)

Chuckle_Brother 04-27-2006 01:16 PM

I know my opinion doesn't matter, but in the area of improvement I guess it does. Same as Dor my biggest issue was the music, it was just all.....grar. Thats about the best word I can use to describe it, FN + END ftw

Rao Dao Zao 04-27-2006 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rao Dao Zao
Author's note: Any comments concerning the music should be put off until the entire map has been observed and the links between lyrics and story pondered.

Note that lyrics appear only in the ending cinematic.

Captain Griffen 04-27-2006 07:14 PM

Quote:

At this point I was pissed and alt-tabbed for 2 minutes. Upon returning to the game, I had lost. Those damn kamikaze terrorists.

Time doesn't pass in single player while alt-tabbed. At least not for me.

Also like to suggest that the music is changed to be a music, rather than sound, variable, as this seems to be the problem.

Rao Dao Zao 04-27-2006 08:03 PM

There is a reason for this.

Using music variables with my battle music system (which requires fast switching of tracks) caused massive lag that is absent with sound variables. I am currently implementing a limited in-game volume control.

Blade.dk 04-28-2006 05:21 PM

I didn't totally finish it, but here are my thoughts.

I agree with Dorelian, it was annoying that you could see the map bounds in the water, both during cinematics and normal gameplay.

As for the music, I never play wc3 with sound turned on, so I can't comment on this.

The cinematics were generally nice, but there were some problems. My units were being attacked and killed so I lost during a cinematic.
I think that it would be a good idea to use black fade filters when a new cinematic ends/starts, because it looks a bit weird to me when the camera and the units just suddenly move.

It was pretty nice to see the units speaking, but it was a bit annoying that during a dramatic cinematic, one of my soldiers were asking for beer.

I preferred the RPG part of it way more than the TD and hero defence parts, it might have been because I found them too long, and generally don't like them extremely much.

The terrain was nice, and the plot was fine too. Most of the map was really good, in my opinion.

The only big problem that I found was units being killed during cinematics - seriously, this must not happen. Better pause all units that has nothing to do with the cinematic and make them invulnerable, or do something else. Just be sure that this is fixed.
It will get my approval when you fix that bug.

Rao Dao Zao 04-28-2006 06:17 PM

Am working on various fixes for bugs turned up at other sites, though I'm not entirely sure when the next version will be ready.

And be sure to put the sound on for the end cinematic, it's rather vital :emote_grin:

Rinpun 05-14-2006 02:17 AM

Very, very nice! I hope you don't mind that I'm using Hendrik's Captain model for a few of my own hero designs for some projects I'm helping some people with. That spinning animation just pwns :D

On a side-note, the music was incredibly so-so and the randomized three human events were just odd. I mean, I had one map with Hendrik farting over and over again, and then in another time when I won, the only thing he'd do was comment that "By 'eck it's wet!"

Rao Dao Zao 05-14-2006 08:57 AM

Don't worry, in the next version he won't comment during cinematics.

And that spinning anim is just one of the demon hunter's attacks; not difficult at all. Just give credit, y'hear! :P

Rao Dao Zao 05-22-2006 09:26 AM

Sorry for the double post, but I need to note: an updated version with various bugfixes is uploaded at wc3sear.ch, and in the queue at Maps 'n' Mods. Been trying to upload it to my website, but sitesled seems to be down (again). It can also now be downloaded at the Hive.

Tim. 05-22-2006 09:45 AM

It's about time :P

I'll review it as soon as possible.

Tim. 05-25-2006 09:47 PM

I tried to review this today but I soon ran into a fatal bug. After I built my base and the Tower Defense minigame began, my town hall got damaged quite a bit, so I sent my workers to repair. I got a message “Don’t bother to repair your base you scoundral!” and about half a second later the game crashed with the Fatal Error message. What the heck?

Lich_Apprentice 05-25-2006 11:24 PM

A couple of things:

A came across a major error. I traveled all the way up until the cinematic with Pyrenes. The only problem was I received a hero death message as I was entering the north western side, fighting the first pack of wolves. He didn't appear in the cinematic and when that was done, there was nothing for me to kill to finish the quest. I was found in a state of disappointment.

Secondly, I don't really agree with the title. The only part where "When the Freedom Slips Away" title could have fit in was when the Murloc was enslaving the workers. Yes, I do realize that Pyrenes was influencing the people colonizing, but I expected to see a hero who was defending peasants and fighting against nobility and the king. Maybe it has something to do with the ending?

Tim. 05-25-2006 11:36 PM

This time I was prepared, so I did no need to repair the base and cause the error mentioned above. Here is a list of the issues I noticed:
  • Although I can understand why you wanted to use the music (The way the lyrics tie with the plot and such), it is very repetitive and should only be used at certain points in small amounts, then played in its entirety during the final cinematic.
  • I liked how the sound played when you attacked something, this was a nice touch. However it also fired when I attacked my own units. Isn’t that a little silly?
  • Please preload the abilities and models, the lag when I first whip out an ability is annoying (Especially since you get a whole new ability set halfway through).
  • Why is the healing fountain called the Barman? Certainly Bartender makes more sense. Also, why do you have to build a Barman? Perhaps build the bar stand and then have the Bartender appear in front of the closest barracks and walk to the bar.
  • Why did a Barman suddenly appear in a formerly ogre inhabited cave when a portal to the beyond opened and the cave was blocked? He went for a piggyback ride with Henrick just before the cave closed itself? Maybe try to make a logical reason for him being there.
  • The abilities were very powerful. This is great if you’re someone like me who really doesn’t like killing 7 wolves individually, but being able to kill a giant mass of super-powered units with an default Blizzard ability with a huge range, 1000 damage, and 7 second cooldown is a bit much. Likewise for the 16 target, 350 damage Chain Lightning.
  • While on the topic of abilities, all of the abilities were just modified War3 abilities. I think such a map could benefit from some custom abilities - especially because of the custom art you, being a modeler, could add to them.
  • Add a hero glow to Henrick please, he’s a hero after all. Same goes for the evil Captain guy. (I liked how he had an inverted portrait!) Also it would be nice if you could add attachment points to the boat and just attach the Captain and Commander to them so that they moved up and down with the boat during the cinematic.
  • You could see the edge of the sea in cinematics and in-game. This looks very unprofessional, and I suggest what you do is make the map much larger, then just change in the WE the playable map size to the current size. Then when Cinematic mode is turned on you will see a giant ocean in all directions (fog would be great!)
  • I agree with Dor about the Lord Kirby thing. The name Kirby has too many goofy associations with it to be an effective name in such a game.
I truly did enjoy the game, the plot was easy to follow and open enough that you were not feeling pushed around all the time (The Scholar and other side quests for example.) However everything seemed to happen so fast, and the game seemed too short. I would have preferred more character building, and a better sense of time.

This map has my approval in its current state (assuming the Fatal Error mentioned is fixed), however I highly suggest the issues I mentioned be taken care of.

Rao Dao Zao 05-26-2006 09:18 AM

In no particular order (:emote_grin:):

I've never come accross the fatal error with repairing the base; but it's necessary to stop people from fixing it during the tower defence and I can't disable repair altogether or else the towers would be unbuildable; I couldn't think of a way to stop them (issuing order stop just didn't work for some reason) short of removing and adding the ability again. I'll look into it.

I had thought that I'd taken care of all that times Pyraeus died against the wolves; obviously not, I'll look into it.

On the subject of preloading, I've never really got it to work. It can be done with just placing all the models on the map and then removing them, yes?

The abilities are super-powerful because I wanted to keep the pace up. There have been a few complaints about the blizzard-variant, I may consider changing it.

You're not supposed to attack your own units, you ninny! :emote_wink: Humm, a quick condition should sort that.

No hero glow for Henrik. He's just an ordinary soldier with a flair for magic. I hate hero glow too. I only didn't remove it from all the other heroes because it would gratuitously add another 400Kb or so to the map.

The edge of the map being visible is a hangover from its earliest conception; the map had to be very small because I was running on minimum system and all that. Not a problem anymore, but I'd still like to honour that, bizarre as it sounds.

Kirby is a perfectly legitimate surname and it will not be changed.

Overall, seems positive, I'll take a look into all this stuff and see what can be done. :emote_thumbup:

Tim. 05-26-2006 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rao Dao Zao
On the subject of preloading, I've never really got it to work. It can be done with just placing all the models on the map and then removing them, yes?

That is one way, yes. You can also use triggers (You have to use triggers for the spells and effects)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rao Dao Zao
There have been a few complaints about the blizzard-variant, I may consider changing it.

I hope you do, it would really improve the quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rao Dao Zao
Not a problem anymore, but I'd still like to honour that, bizarre as it sounds.

Well of course you are entitled to do as you wish, however fixing it would take only half a minute and it would greatly improve how the map looks and feels.

On another note I forgot to mention I loved the terrain, great work.

CaptainPicard 05-26-2006 04:24 PM

Well, since you made a campaign-style map I wanted to see what ideas others were bringing to the table. However, I noticed a lot of problems.

At the start, the game is actually fairly hard seeing as you've only got melee guys, the footmen get damaged very easily and don't heal well, and there's no way to rapidly heal anything. The fact that the screeps respawn right next to you, on the screen, is a bit irritating (I've got respawning creeps, no doubt, but they're much more animated and in any case they don't appear right on top of you).

The pathing was difficult--not too easy to move about the various passages on the map, although the terrain wasn't bad.

I didn't care for the constant buffoonery of the guys farting and demanding beer.

The cinematics need more animation; you're moving the camera, true, but so slowly that it almost feels like the cameraman has been drinking all the beer that the footmen are looking for while he's trying to hold the lens steady.

The music is horrible--and I see I'm in good company on that statement.

There's hardly any room to make your base. And, then, I'm supposed to defend it with towers? I suppose it's not some fatal bug, but you moved Henrik inexplicably to a shallow-water beach below the base, right as you set the tower defense quest. None of that makes sense, and it makes the game a lot less fun.

Ho-hum. The story seems depthy, at least--you've done good work there. Execution is what's needed.

Rao Dao Zao 05-26-2006 05:47 PM

As I have said before, I will stand by every production decision so far. Your gripes are a matter of taste.

Tim. 05-27-2006 12:19 PM

How soon can we expect an update? As in should I move this to Map/Campaign Projects or hold it here?

Rao Dao Zao 05-27-2006 03:46 PM

Hold it here a little longer, I suppose. The only development is bugfixing.

Werewulf 06-06-2006 09:34 AM

i loved it..although when i went to the portal the guy killed me and i didnt make a single save..
but the music was weird but alright, even on my first shot of the game i tolerted it well, actually i didnt notice it much, i think it blended well with the humour of the soldiers and plot..
and that villager..."the gods are pissing on us", thats a classic.
i loved it!
Greatwork!

PipeDream 06-25-2006 03:20 AM

Applause! You've set a new bar in warcraft writing. Finally.
Weak points:
- Please encourage us to save often =) Since the game is focused on a story I don't want to replay it.
- Music is a special effect and should be used sparingly.
- Hero defense was rather boring. You might spice it up with an air assault. Have zeppelins rush in, drop their units behind the front line, before running as they get shot down by the towers.
- There were a few fractures in continuity.
-- At the end of the invasion of Errbrueck, you jump from attacking the rax to chasing Lord Scheisen on the other side of the map. You might make it flow better by showing Scheisen running past Henrik in town first.
-- After the hero defense bit, it jumps to the two at 100% in the field. The 100% is wacky as is the abrupt cut. At the last attack, you could give Henrik a reason to run back. Maybe he needs to fetch a catapult, healing scroll or tell Lord Kirby they're winning/losing/status. Then halfway Balthasar, who has been sneaking around like the dick he is, jumps Henrik.

This is about where I died, so maybe I'm way off the mark about this. Anyway, meeting Pyraeus is rather awkward. So much is revealed so fast. The foreshadowing of the mysterious stranger doesn't really match up with this crazy looking incorporeal dude. You could do it more directly: perhaps a glimpse on a hill or in the background during a cinematic. Then when you do meet him, perhaps you just overhear him discussing with his minions or casting spells. Alternatively you could go whole hog and have him monologue, that might fit with your theme better.

Awesome job. I heartily approve.

Tim. 06-25-2006 04:34 PM

That’s three, you’re in! Congratulations, RDZ; I’m still looking forward to the next version though.

Rao Dao Zao 06-26-2006 12:35 PM

... FINALLY! Thank you PipeDream, your cash is in the post-- Ahem.

Don't want to encourage people to do anything; hence no feature lists, no advertising; just story. I want people to actually get into this, not for all those bitties, but just because.

Hero defence, I suppose you mean defending Thirlmir? I'll tell you why they can't have an air drop - they don't have air technology. Have you not seen the world-conquering "boat" at the Errsbruck harbour? :P

The chasing Scheisen across the map after the barracks falls is implicit; and remember, the island is tiny. Adding any extra little bits in there would disrupt from the fast-paced nature of the section. Or something. :emote_grin:

The 100% hp sort of thing is necessary; because you may not be in a very good state after the final wave of attackers, and Balthasar is prone to stunning you after the first attack - which would mean you're in a rubbish position and probably going to die immediately unless you know what's coming. I would have loved to put you in as you were, but gameplay denies me that option. And Balthasar doesn't sneak around, he's a very up-front sort of guy as you can probably see from the dialogue...

Hrm, hope that caters for everything... If you've got better ideas on how to explicitly fill in some of these "gaps", then do say so soon, so I can have a try before releasing the next version. Glad you enjoyed it, anyway. :emote_thumbup:

Yes, the new version comes... Various minor bugfixes, Henrik's Rain of Ice has been replaced with something a tiny little bit more appropriate (possibly) and less likely to shred your own forces... But I still want to beef up Pyraeus' final fight a little more, then I'll have to test-run through the whole thing a few times...

And for all those people who dislike the music (*sigh*), it will be disable-able (except the final end-cin music where it is very important) via an escape key menu.

Whew, long speil. *takes a bow*

ragingspeedhorn 06-27-2006 11:11 AM

Congratulations on finally getting approved RDZ!

Werewulf 06-27-2006 11:38 AM

Congrats!!!

*throws a basket of flowers at the wall*

whoops missed...

Metal_Sonic64 06-27-2006 12:04 PM

Yeah, it's truly a great map that really deserves to be here. Congrats!

Grafish 07-03-2006 01:09 PM

Nearly 2 years of work... Well RDZ it was worth it!

Alucardsonofvlad 07-04-2006 01:11 PM

Just GREAT
 
:emote_thumbup: Unvelibable, such a great map, great theme,lots of fun , only 1 problem: the Music, i had to turn sounds off after 5 minutes or i would have become absolutely MAD:emote_wtf: i give it 4/5

Av3n 07-28-2006 07:16 AM

this map is pretty neat, one think i hated about it that you had to watch the cinematics cause if you escape something would go wrong though..

Rao Dao Zao 07-28-2006 12:35 PM

Examples, please?

Jacek 07-28-2006 12:46 PM

SPOILERS INSIDE

Rao whats need fixing is the mission where towers raise from the ground and you must destroy them. Actually I had to destroy 2 of them, because third got destroyed almost instantly by my plasma towers I stacked during tower defense part


Rao Dao Zao 07-28-2006 12:48 PM

Don't worry Jacek, I've been working on that one for the next update.

Captain Griffen 07-29-2006 11:13 PM

More map breaking from the atomic bomb of map testing!

I broke the map again, RDZ...

Spoilers

After the immortal guy fights you (world's easiest fight with 3 water elementals by the way), you walk out. At first, I got confused by the fact you have to fight and beat the guard captain again (not what the quest said, so I summoned and ran, then came back to complete your script...). What happened next was that, just as I ended the second fight against the immortal guy, I finished the pig quest.
Result: I got moved inside the now closed and invulnerable gates, and could not get out.


Ben123 07-30-2006 12:44 AM

yeah, id have to lay, LOVE the game, HATE the music, sry, but it made me want to kill myself...next time, make i more questy type music :)

Rao Dao Zao 07-30-2006 09:15 AM

Have you not read anything I have previously stated? The music is non-negociable. If you lot weren't stuck in a bloody rut of things having to be precisely as all the clichés, you might appreciate this better.

Griffen: Argh. At least I know how/why this is happening and can do something about it :emote_wtf: :emote_grin:

DD_Draco 08-05-2006 10:34 AM

I played this about 1-2 months ago, and i loved it, solely and wholely loved it. It was two years of well paid work...

Oh and just for kicks, THE MUSIC... OMG, SO BAD xD... I saw ur myspace blog xD and i just had to comment...

That and i hadnt said anything once i played it...


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