Wc3C.net (http://www.wc3c.net/forums.php)
-   Map Database (http://www.wc3c.net/forumdisplay.php?f=654)
-   -   (1) The Story of the Norj'Hal Elves [Download Broken] (http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=82976)

Pheonix-IV 05-13-2006 09:40 AM

Oh good god, no wonder i couldn't get past. I saw the gate, but it didn't open when i put a unit near it so i figured i'd have to come back later. I had to walk a unit as close to it as possible and then wiggle it around a bit to open the damn gate. I suggest you make that region a bit biggerer.

Tim. 05-13-2006 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by CaptainPicard
Forgot to ask, Tim., but how did you like the Chin'Zon dragons that you can control in the final phase of the game? As minor units go, I spent the most time getting those right. I was surprised by the effect of giving the dragons to an allied player with shared unit control--it effectively made the units auto-cast Banish and Forked Lightning! Works OK, in my estimation, and it would be hard for me to incorporate those units into Player 1's slots because of the unit supply cap I'm trying to impose (not to mention the fact that I don't want you to have lots of flying units in the sub-maps).

I saw no need to change it.


Originally Posted by CaptainPicard
Also, roughly how long did it take you to complete the whole thing? How much less productive have I made the world by unleashing this little gem?

I don't really recall, somthing like 2-3 hours.

On a side note, please don't double post. Just use the edit feature below your post.

CaptainPicard 05-13-2006 07:50 PM

Changes made
Well, if you download the new version of the map I've made as many suggested changes as I can.

The cinematic with the Owl flying through the volcano is triggerable by any unit, because I don't want units getting into the volcano without seeing the cinematic first. It does respond to the presence of a particular hero on the map (i.e. if Aria isn't there, then Lan'Inthas will speak instead with different lines). But, I can't really change that cinematic too much. The overall style to this point has been to maintain continuity between the units in the cinematic and the units in the game (e.g. don't have them in one place for the cinematic and then find them back where they were after the cinematic closes). That's why the hero projections appear in certain cinematics.

The Vyra Drakes (in the volcano) now shoot fire. Looks much better.

The Frozen Mist ability summoned unit (not exactly a dummy unit) no longer has a shadow. FYI: these spells are trigger boosted lightly, but often in ways that aren't absolutely necessary for the spell to work. Frozen Mist, in particular, will evaporate over lava very quickly, but before it does it will severely damage any of the magma creatures that come within range. Not related to trigger-boosting, the Frozen Mist will not harm Ice Revenants, Frost Revenants, Ice Golems, and Snow / Frost Witches. On the flip side, Fire Traps will do double damage to units that Frozen Mist can't harm, and unless it kills a unit outright Fire Traps will give a net hp bonus to magma creatures. Subtleties that I leave it up to the user to figure out (but the game is perfectly playable even if you never do).

I've improved the explanation of your three-character saved-game ID. In theory, it allows multiple users to paly separate games on the same computer.

Ah, yes, the text fade filter. The reason I display the text subtitles is that there is some sort of bug that causes some of the text cards not to display. Actually, waiting for a few seconds as I do to show you the opening credits seems to mitigate the effect, but I would like to retain the subtitles just in case.

There are no memory leaks that I know of. The map loading takes a long time, I think, because of the number of triggers, which is partly due to the creep management system. To change that would be hard, but I can promise that Act II will be better in this regard.

Lag jolts do happen, at the start of each map in particular, because certain units are being placed. This happens so that the game can detect how strong your heroes are (they're not on the map at startup) so that it can place appropriately strong creeps. I could remove some of this lag, but since it's right at the map loading phase it hardly interferes with gameplay. Also, I do pre-place certain units to avoid lag spikes in cinematics. In the cinematic where the Drakehorn bosses appear, the units are pre-placed. Also, in the cinematic where Xan'Timus emerges from the dimensional gate he's pre-placed (in both cases, the units are simply invisible to begin with). Not sure how much else I can do to mitigate this effect without seriously running up the number of active unit variables in each map--and that would become a drag on future editing efforts. In Majh'Nam, a lot of units are pre-placed. Edit that map and see how long it takes to specify a unit variable there versus how long it takes in any of the sub-maps. Might want to go make yourself another sandwich.

I carried out your suggestion for the red sky over the light-blue fog. Doesn't work. But I did change the fog to match the sky for that particular scene.

During a test run an hour ago, I also found a bug that could seriously mess up the big cinematic in the volcano. It's only happened once in the twenty or so times I've viewed that cinematic, but I added a safety mechanism to make sure that it doesn't foul up future executions.

Lastly, I made the gates in Drakehorn more accessible and put a hint about them on the map. Should work fine now.

Download the new version from my site in a half hour or so, and it should be ready to go. Thanks for hosting my map--it's good to have it in a database of high-quality projects.

I don't know when Act II will be ready, but in addition to the improvements I've already stated, I will be looking for voice actors and going for a level of cinematic quality comparable to Anitarf's "professional" style. The opening cinematic will set the stage for the first movement of Act II, where Aszune raids the Norj'Hal capital of Dajh'Onnar to discover the location of the dragon who has her heart. Aszune's spells will be much more trigger-boosted than those of the existing units, but I shouldn't ramble...

Thanks again!

Tim. 05-13-2006 10:47 PM


Originally Posted by CaptainPicard
Thanks for hosting my map--it's good to have it in a database of high-quality projects.

You still need two more approvals before I can host you :P However I wouldn't worry much ^_-

BBDino 05-14-2006 12:16 AM

I'm about 3/4+ through this now so i'll quickly note down my thoughts, might flesh them out when i'm finished.


- Writings quite strong, good use of langauge.
- More or less bug free.
- Gameplays relativly solid, if a bit bland (lots of creep killing).


- They story's a bit flavourless, think the backstories of the characters could be fleshed out - seem that the players just dumped with little understanding of what's happening. Even 2/3+ hours in, im still not actually sure of the main charatcers history.
- To many items use orb effects, the fact they don't stack means you tend to ignore them, especially since they don't stack with feedback.
- DIfficulty a bit varied, i died many times on Drakehorn because like 12 dragons would come and gank me. The dreadlord(s) boss was quite frustrating because tactics basically boiled down to stun locking them which isn't alot of fun. On the other hand i found the Caldera quite easy.
- The fact you needed 6 living units to solve the City of the Dead puzzle was just anoying, i didn't have the gold for mercs (tome binge ftw) so had to cheat.

I'll wirte more as it comes to me.

Pheonix-IV 05-14-2006 08:12 AM


- The fact you needed 6 living units to solve the City of the Dead puzzle was just anoying, i didn't have the gold for mercs (tome binge ftw) so had to cheat.

Thats your stupidity, not the fault of the game. Mercs are MUCH better than tomes, only get tomes once your full up on items and mercs.

BBDino 05-14-2006 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by Pheonix-IV
Thats your stupidity, not the fault of the game. Mercs are MUCH better than tomes, only get tomes once your full up on items and mercs.

I'd beleive you....if my mercs i DID hire hadn't died 2 minutes into the bonfire defence.

My 140+ damage Ice Princess >>> mercenaries.

Nasrudin 05-14-2006 02:29 PM


Originally Posted by GaDDeN
Its a textdocument when i right click and save as. If i click it, the broser shows a textdocument that freezes the computer untill i shut down the internet using ctrl alt del.

Same for me, except for the freeze part. It opens a page full of ascii code, and can save only as text file. :emote_wtf:

CaptainPicard 05-15-2006 02:22 AM

New Download site
I've been using the generously provided Wiki of the Dwarf Campaign people as a temporary home for my map (if there are issues with double-hosting a map then I would prefer to host the map here, although the Dwarf Wiki is an excellent way for me to post screenshots, history, and other tidbits related to the campaign).


That should be a more accessible download, at least for the time being.

AKA CaptainPicard

GaDDeN 05-15-2006 02:00 PM

I dont have time for a lengthy review atm, but from what ive seen its a very nice campaign.

I must say the way you forced the player to abuse the healing item was quite... bad. One of the first fights (after the "oh noes theyre possesed" cinematic) was impossible without healing item abuse. I suggest you make these items undropable and increase the cooldown. To balance, simply reduce the strength of the creeps. Also, the first abilities were quite dull. Frost nova, aerial shackles etc. Im sure you can come up with something more original :)

But as i said, its a very nice campaign. Approved.

CaptainPicard 05-15-2006 02:38 PM

What about this?
How about a couple of archer escorts for the Princess and her Par? Pretty weird to see a Princess and the man she's betrothed (but not yet married) to going off all by themselves, and even if they were long-time King and Queen, you wouldn't expect to see them going around without at leas some protection.

Yes, two archers should do it--make the intro more rapid (I was having a bit of a problem myself when replaying it just now), and could even get you a gold bonus if you want to dismiss them the moment you get to Majh'Nam.

Also, for everyone who's been playing the map--what units do you stock up on? There are a number of combinations I've found to work well:

* 5 Archers (have Aria's Call of the Wild spell take melee damage while they waste everything)
* 3 Wolf Riders
* 3 Archers, 2 Hunters (similar to above)
* 2 Wolf Riders, 1 Hunter, 1 Priestess

Another thing, has anyone been poking around with item melding? There are some suggestions for item melds, although I should probably add some more hints. In particular, the most useful item melds are:

* (Gloves of Haste + Crown of Pel'Jaam: IN-GAME-HINT) + Jah'Tara's Amulet = Flawless Crown of Pel'Jaam (+240 mana with 30-second cooldown, +15% attack speed, +4/+4/+8 Str./Agi./Int.)
* (Gloves of Haste + Crown of Bar'Janiis: IN-GAME-HINT) + Amulet of Healing = Resplendent Crown of Bahr'Janiis (+400 hp with 8-second cooldown, +15% attack speed, +8/+4/+4 Str./Agi./Int.)
* (Gloves of Haste + Necklace of Kah'lMar: IN-GAME-HINT) + Wand of Illusion = Radiant Necklace of Kahl'Mar (60-second illusion with 30-second cooldown, +15% attack speed, +4/+8/+4 Str./Agi./Int.)

Nobody seems to have picked up on the way you can meld secondary items onto the three "Royal Jewelry" + Gloves of Haste products, but there is a hint about that too. Probably the best way to be spending your money is Mercs > Items > Item Upgrades > Tomes.

I've found that having a band of units significantly improves the pace of the game, as it's intended to, but there are a couple of "difficulty spikes" that can get your band killed off. I like "unit conservation" games, but the way the creeps and terrain on my map work, it can be easy to walk right into a very nasty fight without realizing it because lots of units are in the woods nearby. Part of this, of course, is getting some Sentinels or Wolf Riders in your party who can scout or summon Eyes of the Owl to illuminate the playing field for you. But, having to start over, having lost your ~12000g worth of units makes you wish you had just tomed. I think I can make a simple fix--notching up the difficulty when you have a hero reach at level 6 instead of level 5. That way you've got ultimates to protect your units, and both Aria and Lan'Inthas have some nice spells in this respect (GaDDeN, I hope you've played far enough to check out those ultimates...).

Finally, GaDDeN, after playing some more custom maps (I've only played a few, and this is my first), I have been impressed with the trigger-boosted spells. In the next installment, if and when it arrives, I intend to outfit Aszune as a hero of comparable power to the four main characters of Act I, but with many (or all) trigger-boosted abilities. Force Wall, of course, but I'm also thinking of some tricks that turn Night Elves / Norj'Hal Elves into more powerful Naga for a finite time as well as a Charm-like ability that plays off of Aszune's connection to the Well of Eternity.

OK, I ramble. I'll get these mods done sometiime in the next few days.

GaDDeN 05-15-2006 04:07 PM

Having an escort for the first scenario would be perfect. Micro managing two heroes (and two wolves) isnt really a challenge, but having two archers would be alot more interesting.

CaptainPicard 05-16-2006 01:04 AM

GaDDeN, roughly how far did you get?
Did you see the cinematic at the end of the volcano level?

Did you obtain the third hero?

Did you travel to Gahl'Dun yet?

Just curious, no pressure. Thanks for your thumbs-up review! :emote_dance:

BBDino 05-16-2006 06:15 AM

I think everyone underestimates tomes of damage when combined with.....the IMBA MASK OF DEATH ITEM!!

Seriously i don't *need* mercs because Aria heals 85 damage an attack and thanks to her passive/the damage reduction ring thing/her being awesome she never takes much damage.

One thing though, atm you can use the wand of revivial in battle because enemies tend not to attack it cos ya heroes spawn next to you, maybe make it less abusable in the middle of battle as a infinite ank/healing ward?

Tim. 05-16-2006 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by BBDino
One thing though, atm you can use the wand of revivial in battle because enemies tend not to attack it cos ya heroes spawn next to you, maybe make it less abusable in the middle of battle as a infinite ank/healing ward?

I didn't even think of trying that! He is right, though.

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin (Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd).
Hosted by www.OICcam.com
IT Support and Services provided by Executive IT Services